<p>Does anyone recall the whzup44412 thread "Backing out of ED" last December and January? I believe whzup decided to honor his ED at Haverford, possibly because of the very good advice he got here on CC.</p>
<p>Florus, I think you've got it...I knew there was very similar thread last year and couldn't remember the poster's name.</p>
<p>Berurah, if you think the OP was bashed for asking a question, you mis-read the thread.</p>
<p>what if you can't afford the tuition, are you allowed to get out of the binding agreement then?</p>
<p>Not that Brooklyn will care about this point but not honoring an ED acceptance can also cause problems for the high school and future applicants to that college/university. It is a rock thrown in a puddle which causes many ripples.</p>
<p>You are a smart person, smart enough to get into a prestigious school. You knew what the agreement was, you asked us if you could use financial aid as an excuse to get out of the agreement. Many posters have told you what they thought. Some speculated that you might be able to get out of the agreement by calling and asking to be listed RD instead. That seemed reasonable. Others chose to remind you that to break your agreement is wrong. Your response is that since it is your money and time that it is your agreement to break. You further quiried, "who else is it about?" I would argue it is about all the other people who abide by their agreements, who didn't apply ED because they weren't sure yet, or who had done the research and were not accecpted because you took their spot. It is about everyone else that applies to colleges and who doesn't want the rules monkeyed with. </p>
<p>If you get accepted ED go to the school unless a real emergency occurs. If you don't like it maybe you could transfer in a year. Who advises you? They should have helped you to understand this was an adult level agreement and was binding. </p>
<p>If you don't want to be lectured, don't insult people by coming into a site looking for honest people to endorse your unethical approach.</p>
<p>TheDad,</p>
<p>In fairness to you, I went back and reread this thread and I honestly do not think I misconstrued anything. I am condoning neither the OP's stance nor the tone of his post, however, as a parent myself, I guess I just hold parents to a higher standard of behavior than I do teens. My own child would not have posted this question in this manner, but were he to, I would hope that the responders could understand that 1.) teens are adults-in-training, not full-fledged adults, 2.) not everyone receives the guidance that would enable him to fully comprehend the ethical and financial commitment of E.D., and 3.) that desperation makes us all do irrational things from time to time.</p>
<p>For the record, I completely agree with your advice on this matter--it's just that I think that some of your points were lost to the caustic nature of several of your responses. And as a person whose brother works as a diplomat in U.S. embassies abroad, I have been trained to recognize that a little diplomacy goes a long way.</p>
<p>I really didn't mean you any offense. Peace, ~berurah</p>
<p>Vinzzy, when you apply ED, it's with the understandint that <em>whatever</em> FinAid package you are offered, you are still committed to going. This is one of several reasons why I hate ED...it's yet another hidden boost to students from more affluent homes. We are not poor but our D could not afford to apply ED because while FinAid was not an absolute consideration, it could not be ignored. (And then I had to sweat--I don't think D ever quite realized the stakes--playing poker with her #1 school's FinAid department. It was very above board, kinda like negotiations with an IRS auditor, and fortunately it turned one of the worst FinAid offers into the best.)</p>
<p>Berurah, as someone has already observed, anyone who is smart enough to be competitive for the universities mentioned is smart enough to understand the ED policies as written. You and I are probably in the same book, possibly even the same chapter, but not on the same page: in terms of ethical responsibilities and "degree of adulthood", these 17- and 18-year-olds should be <em>there</em>. Admittedly, this is one of the first time that most of them are playing with "live ammunition" but one of the goals of parenting should be that none of this is coming as a shock to them when they do.</p>
<p>I'll plead to one count of caustic. It ranges with the post and circumstances.
Smart self-serving people trying to game the system don't require much coddling, imo.</p>
<p>oh no...I applied ED2 to WUSTL, and there's no way I can afford a 40k+ tuition!! Should I call them and switch it or something?? When I talked to them they said they would try to 100% meet financial status, and if it doesn't work we could withdraw from it.</p>
<p>The FinAid departments will work with you to create a better package if the initial offering is inadequate. When a school admits a candidate through ED, they don't want to lose him. That's why they'll be as accomodating as possible in terms of negotiating financial aid. While it's understandable that many families must take Finaid into consideration, I find the ED process to not be as bad as many make it. If accepted without adequate financial aid, one of two things can happen:</p>
<p>1) negotiation for a better aid package</p>
<p>2) withdrawal of acceptance</p>
<p>path 2 is usually very rare. I am on Finaid myself and several of my friends who applied last year applied ED and encountered finaid problems. After some negotiation with the FinAid office their packages were improved.</p>
<p>The willingness of the finaid office to negotiate makes pulling out because of money issues a reason only the most extreme cases can use. Using it as an excuse is extremely weak.</p>
<p>Berurah-
Your point is well taken, but the nasty tone this guy took when he didn't like what people were saying was uncalled for. We should all be aware of "netequitte", but because this guy said, after his final swipe at everyone, that he wouldn't return to this post, it is understandable that folks took a few liberties. And general courtesy and decorum goes both ways. I don't think the fact that he is only 17-18 is any excuse for his rudeness.</p>
<p>Speaking as one is was not pleased with OP's attitude or comments to the people who responded to his request, I will add that 1) I agree 100% with TheDad; and 2) Berurah, these kids are 17 and 18 years old. They are not children any longer.<br>
However, even children should not get a pass for doing / saying inappropriate things. How else do they learn except through correction? If I had responded to my kids when they were 7 or 8, by saying, oh, gee, don't worry about [fill in the blank] because after all, you're only an inexperieced child, - guess what they will learn from that? Zero. </p>
<p>If at the age of 18, the OP can serve in the army, vote, drive a car, and hold a job, he can most definitely learn to speak with a certain decency to other people who were, after all, only answering a question he himself asked of us all.</p>
<p>Here are the options as I see them:</p>
<p>1.) If you call before they mail/release the decisions, you may be able to cancel the ED choice before the release. If they have mailed the letter, this probably won't be possible. However, it may significantly hurt your chances regular decision time, or even outright rejection early.</p>
<p>2.)Don't risk all of your applications by breaking the rules, if you get in before canceling, you have to go...</p>
<p>3.) Unless you don't get enough money. This is always the way out of binding ED. However the downsides:
.....A.) If they offer you a great package (strange that this would be a downside), then you can't honestly act that it is too expensive.
.....B.) If your family makes a significant amount of money, then this won't work.
.....C.) You may be blacklisted from attending this or any college at that amount.</p>
<p>So, if you really don't want to go, then cancel now. If you don't want to go and can't cancel, see if you get enough $, otherwise, go and be happy that you got in.</p>
<p>I usually dont post of "whiny" threads but brooklyn' assault on a respected member, TheDad, is outrageous.
Brooklyn....If you regret your decision about applying ED, dont blame the colleges or the posters....Blame yourself and use the help to try and fix it.</p>
<p>Vinzzy, if WUSTL <em>said</em> that to you, then relax. There have been enough anecdotal tales of students being left high and dry that I would never proceed on that assumption. The fact that it happens for some students, per Mzhang's post, would not give me sufficient confidence. Moreover, if you could get one of the nice people at WUSTL to FAX or e-mail you something in writing, I'd feel even better. </p>
<p>Possibly I am paranoid. Possibly I have survived more than three decades longer than some students and have learned when a bit of paranoia is not inappropriate. Or maybe I'm just plain whacko.</p>
<p>Remember meeting 100% of your need and offering a better package could also mean loans.</p>
<p>TheDad, I disagree with you about ED. You are (according to every college I've looked at, at least) not allowed to back out of an ED committment UNLESS it is for financial reasons, in which case they seem to be understanding enough to allow you to go to a cheaper school, or one that gives better aid, without punishing you.</p>
<p>It is for this reason that I think all early programs should be binding - unless, again, you can't pay, in which case you should be able to apply elsewhere. I think you should only get the benefit (and not just the statistical admissions benefit, but also the knowing-in-december part) of applying early if you are 100% sure that school is the only school for you. I know so many people who chose to apply EA becuase they think they have to, even though the school they chose was not a clear top choice. This makes the application process more difficult for those students who are extremely committed to that one school, and only want to go there. Oftentimes, these students are equally qualified, but are passed over simply due to the fact that the schools don't have enough room for everyone who applies. I think these students are the ones who deserve the advantages ED offers. </p>
<p>Anyway, my two cents. Rather unrelated to the original topic, sorry.</p>
<p>At my school I was so angry at all the kids who did the "oh my god ED is coming up, I should apply now!!!!!" without thinking it through.</p>
<p>I applied ED, but only because I fell in love with the school first. I live in california, and i spent a week and a half visiting east coast schools. I visited Boston University and I just..... fell in love with the campus. Things just clicked, I got the right vibes etc. </p>
<p>These f<strong>king punks who decide to do ED for no real reason **</strong> me off endlessly. ED should be binding, and only applicants who are willing to absolutely go there regardless of other schools should apply. ED was intended to make life easy for those who have a good chance of getting into their dream school. Now it's just another loophole.</p>
<p>I have also heard from admission officers that ED can be reconsidered if finances are a problem, that is one of the reasons I recommend that students understand the financial aid process as well as the admission process. Some schools are less of a risk than others in this department. No huge loans and reasonable need is met. Going into debt for a great investment, college, is not the same as buying a car, but you will do well to keep your loans to a minimum if you want to consider grad school.</p>
<p>Kit, as pointed out by Sybbie, "meeting need" can mean huge loans that you don't want to take. And there have been documented numerous impasses where a student's family says "we can't pay this" and the ED school says, "Tough. We think you can."</p>
<p>I dislike ED for a number of reasons and think it should be abolished. Single-choice EA would be good, I think. And Wellesley's Early Evaluation is one of the most civilized things I've seen in admissions...bad news still stings but at least it comes quickly and you haven't tied up your life and either way you can proceed.</p>
<p>I hate ED, too. IMO it is essentially affirmative action for wealthy white people.</p>
<p>Think about it. Anyone who thoughtfully applies ED has to have no financial worries because they are throwing themselves at the mercy of the ED college when it comes to any financial aid. While colleges claim that they give ED applicants the same shot for merit and financial aid as they do other applicants, only a fool would bet their college education on that so-called fact.</p>
<p>For most families, no matter what race/ethnicity the families are, the cost of college is a very important factor when it comes to college selection. Most families can not afford to take the risk of applying to only one college and then having to accept whatever that college offers in terms of aid.</p>
<p>While it's possible to back out of ED if financial aid is not adequate, remember it's the college, not the students' parents who determines whether the financial aid is adequate. A college might think it acceptable that a student take out $10 k in loans a year. That same student might be able to get full scholarships (with no loans) from other colleges.
The people, for whom ED is a great opportunity are well off people who need the significant boost to their chances that applying ED gives at many colleges.</p>
<p>Once such people are given spaces, in order to keep their stats high, the college would have to pay more attention to stats in the regular round of admissions. Thus, some students with the stats to have gotten in ED will not get in regular because the standards for regular admission are higher at some colleges.</p>
<p>Thus, IMO at many colleges using ED, wealthy white, less qualified students, are taking spaces that could go to more qualified students who are less well off. The students who'd be most hurt by this would be white students (and possibly Asian students) who do not come from wealthy families.</p>