ED Columbia vs UChicago for an undecided major

College Search & Selection
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current senior trying to figure out where to ED. my applications for both schools are done, and i am squarely in the average range stat wise for both schools. thanks to very generous relatives, financial aid is not that big of a deal to me. i have no clue what i want to major in, but ive narrowed my list down to the following: civil engineering, mechanical engineering, physics, public policy, economics, and urban studies.

uchicago pros:
–student body: i 100% fit the uchicago student archetype. i couldnt care less about sports, frats, drinking, etc. i absolutely love engaging discussions with my peers, and i find a lot of value in learning for the sake of learning.
– free speech: an open minded student body is very important to me. uchicago’s emphasis on free and open discourse aligns exactly with what i value personally.
–core curriculum: i like the liberal arts approach to learning, so the core is right up my alley
–location: urban campus in a fun city.
–ranking: strongly ranked in the social sciences, physics, and humanities

uchicago cons:
–no engineering program: as mentioned before, engineering is a field i am looking into potentially majoring in and pursuing. while physics at UChicago is good, the vast majority of sources i read tell me that you need an engineering degree to get an engineering job.

columbia pros:
–core curriculum: same with chicago. i like their liberal arts philosophy
–location: right in the middle of NYC. whats not to love?
–student body: it seems like the columbia student body is somewhat similar to the uchicago student body in that there isnt a big sport culture/party culture, and the “life of the mind” philosophy behind learning is def present
–rankings: highly ranked in all of the majors im interested in pursuing, AND they have an engineering program

columbia cons:
–free speech: columbia is ranked last in the US for free speech, while uchicago is ranked first. i really don’t want to spend 4 years in an echo chamber. getting a variety of perspectives is very important to me.
–administration: we all know the us news scandal… ive heard horror stories of incompetent admin at columbia, and the added controversy around admissions leaves me wondering if ill actually have a good undergrad experience

im totally split down the middle with these two schools, so any input would be greatly appreciated.

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If you are still considering engineering, you have to throw UChicago out.

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Isn’t it the case that if you apply to Columbia you will have to make an early decision regarding engineering (i.e., by applying to either Columbia College or SEAS)?

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from what ive read about the school policies, it is easy to transfer between seas and the college

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Based on what you wrote, it seems Columbia is a no brainer - because your cons are - well, if they matter to you they’re important - but do you really think you wouldn’t be free to speak at Columbia? You have to take those things with a grain of salt.

While I get it and have argued - someone who wanted a top 10 school got ripped off by the lying - but do you think Columbia is any less respected than 3 months ago and 3 years ago? Do you think anyone professionally is looking at that and saying - Columbia is a bunch of liars, let’s go to Stony Brook?

On the flipside, yes, there are many with physics degrees who get engineering jobs. And the stats say 75% of engineering majors or engineers don’t work in engineering. My son’s internship this summer wanted engineering students and yet the job wasn’t engineering as it turns out. I asked why then all the engineers? Because they want people who think like engineers.

Choose the right school for you based on the schools - not societal nonsense (IMHO it is) like your Columbia cons that won’t impact your day to day experience.

Good luck to you.

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Based on what you have said, this is a no brainer. Definitely choose Columbia ED1. The engineering issue is a concrete pro/con. The free speech stuff is kind of subjective and hearsay, but the engineering issue is real.

And what a great year to apply ED Columbia … when they are temporarily being dragged through the mud a little. It may persuade 5-10% of the Tiger parents to steer their kids away from Columbia this year. But that is very temporary. Columbia is still and will always be a premier institution … take advantage of the current situation.

And the beauty here is you can have 2 shots … apply ED1 to Columbia and if you are rejected or deferred, apply ED2 to UChicago. This seems like an easy decision.

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Why not ED at Columbia and ED 2 at Chicago if that doesn’t work out? Pretty sure the timing would work.

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Applying ED at Columbia and EA at Chicago at the same time is also an option and a very popular combo.

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Yes, but likely results in getting a deferral from Chicago (unless hooked, or fitting a particular niche).

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Chicago does have an engineering major, albeit only one: molecular engineering. It was started a few years ago. They even started a new school of molecular engineering. But it does not have any of the traditional engineering fields like mechanical, electrical, etc. The physics department is quite strong, but heavily focused on theoretical aspects and less so on applied.

I’m familiar with the administration of both schools, and I’d say that UChicago has an advantage. They listen to the students and parents. Not sure I feel the same about Columbia where they are often accused of being tone deaf. Free speech is pretty similar at both schools. Columbia is very tolerant. Have you heard about the mattress girl?

Some notable issues about Columbia: Lots of students get waitlisted for their course selections, and don’t often get their first choice until upperclassmen. The core differs between SEAS and CC. SEAS students have a higher credit requirement for graduation. Its also very difficult to double-major. Proximity to NYC firms makes it possible to do an internship during the school year. Cost of living is higher in NYC.

UChicago considerations: quarter system makes for a very fast pace. About a 1/3 of your classes will be core, 1/3 major and 1/3 electives. Easier to double major at Chicago. Finishing classes in early June makes it difficult for some summer internships (where start dates of May is common). Not impossible but just keep in mind. Winters are brutal in Chicago. Also keep in mind that south of the Plaisance there is occasional violence.

I agree with above posters who suggest combining EA/ED strategically. You could theoretically do ED1 Columbia + EA Chicago. Then if you get deferred switch the EA app to ED2. This would give you 3 shots on goal in the early round.

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