ED strategy for LACs (Williams, Amherst, Bowdoin, Middlebury)?

Applying to College
1

My daughter is interested in the top LACs (more detail below) and is trying to work out how she should approach deciding on one school to apply ED to.

A quick recap of her stats and our situation: 3.8UW GPA, 35 ACT (36 in Science, 35 in the other subjects), completed 5 APs so far (5s on World History, Japanese, and Lang, 4s on Microeconomics and APES) and currently enrolled in 4 more (Calc AB, Lit, Psych, and Gov). Biggest EC is that she founded her school’s ACLU Club as a sophomore and has been president ever since. It’s up to 30 members now, and they do voter registration drives, wrote a know-your-rights guide for students in the district, etc. She’s also done a lot of work as a tech in theater, as well as Model UN, SAGA, and a couple other things. She also is the DM for her D&D club and makes her own cosplay - which might help her stand out a little. She is half-Japanese, and we live in Washington State. We’re not rich, but we’re comfortable paying full tuition, so financial aid won’t be a consideration.

Over the summer she applied to several diversity fly-in programs. (There was another thread where it was discussed whether being half-Japanese really met the colleges’ criteria for a minority - and whether trying to apply to these fly-in programs could actually hurt her if they thought she was trying to crowd in on a program that wasn’t meant for her. Ultimately she decided to apply and was glad she did.) She only got into 1 (one which she had visited in the past and liked), but several others gave her nice consolation responses. A few waived her application fee and a subset of those arranged for a time for her to speak 1:1 with either a current student or someone from the admissions office. When they did this, they specified in their letters that they don’t do this for all of the rejected applicants - they only do this for people they’re genuinely interested in. (In fact, Williams went so far to say that the admissions rate for people they extend these benefits to have historically had 2x the admissions rate compared to other applicants.) The ones that did this were Williams (waived application fee and arranged for call with AO), Amherst (waived application fee), and Middlebury (waived application fee and arranged for call with AO). Grinnell didn’t waive the application fee, but they arranged for her to speak with a current student (and they didn’t say that this was something they only do for a handful of applicants). She got into the Haverford fly-in program which she’ll be attending in a couple weeks.

In terms of her top school preferences, she’s utterly torn. I think she’s considering Williams, Amherst, Bowdoin, and Middlebury as her top choices so far. Even though they are all quite different, there are things she likes about each school, and her personality is such that I do think she would be genuinely happy at any of these places. She’s really interested in the tutorial program at Williams and likes the idea of an isolated campus. On the other hand, she also likes the consortium opportunities at Amherst and the fact that there’s a little town nearby. (We visited Amherst but haven’t been able to go to Williams or Middlebury.) She was interested in Bowdoin’s friendly culture and strong Poli Sci and Env. Science programs, and the international nature of Middlebury. I asked her if she got into all 4, which would she pick, and she said she honestly didn’t know.

So right now she’s trying to work out which, if any, of these schools to apply ED to. As I said, I think she’d be deliriously happy at any of them, so I don’t think there’d be a concern of regret over not being able to find out whether she would have gotten into the other schools. At this point, I think she’d like to pick the application path that will maximize her chances of getting in at one of these schools.

Williams and Amherst only have ED1 - no ED2 option, so we were thinking that she might want to apply to one of those first. The response from Williams/Amherst would be back in time for her to apply ED2 at either Middlebury or Bowdoin, so she’d have essentially 2 bites at the apple. I’m thinking that of the 4 schools, Bowdoin would be the lowest probability of getting in, since they just gave her a flat rejection to the diversity fly-in program whereas the other 3 expressed interest in her. (I could be reading too much into that though.)

So is this the right way to think about it? Williams or Amherst ED1 and Middlebury or Bowdoin ED2? And how much does ED really help at each of these schools anyway? I know that admit rates are much higher for ED than RD, but I’ve also heard that those stats are distorted by the fact that recruited athletes tend to get in ED.

Thoughts? And thanks in advance!

2

“I asked her if she got into all 4, which would she pick, and she said she honestly didn’t know.”
I understand wanting to take advantage of the boost ED gives you when applying to ultra competitive schools, but if your daughter isn’t sure about where she wants to go, maybe she shouldn’t do ED.

3

Those are all great schools so you don’t really have a bad choice or a wrong answer. You might try a visualization exercise with your daughter - have her close her eyes and imagine opening the ED acceptance letter, and ask how disappointed she is that she won’t be going to the other schools.

4

Is financial aid an issue? If not, I think your strategy is sound assuming your daughter would be equally happy at any of these schools. Do you have time to make a quick trip to Williams/Middlebury/Bowdoin before the ED deadline? I’d also consider getting advice from others on true ED boost at these schools vs the somewhat distorted admissions rate stat’s that include recruited athletes, legacies and likely a stronger applicant pool to begin with.

5

I think there is always a risk in applying somewhere ED if you have never visited. It’s one thing to like a school on paper, and quite another to like it in person. Can she tack on some time out east to the Haverford trip and visit the schools she is considering?

6

@TheBigChef

It’s not the case that she’s unsure of what she really wants. It’s more a question of the strengths and weaknesses of each school offset each other in such a way that they all work out to be equally appealing. If she got into all 4, she’d really have a tough time picking one. I think if she could combine the friendliness of Bowdoin, the poli sci department of Bowdoin, the tutorials of Williams, the consortium of Amherst, the open curriculum of Amherst, and the international perspective of Middlebury, she’d go there. :slight_smile: But since in the final analysis they all kind of come out equally appealing, it becomes a question of maximizing her chances of getting accepted. These are all reach schools for her, so it’s certainly not a forgone conclusion that she’ll have her pick of all 4 after the RD rounds are done.

7

“But since in the final analysis they all kind of come out equally appealing, it becomes a question of maximizing her chances of getting accepted”
If that’s the case, then I guess you should do some research into which school gives you the most ED boost. Obviously it’s not an exact science, but take a look at the common data set for the schools and see if you can determine the acceptance rate for ED and the percentage of incoming students that are admitted via ED. If your HS has Naviance, you might also want to take a look and see what kind of track record your daughter’s HS has applying to these schools. In any event, good luck to you and your daughter.

8

@BKSquared

Although I would love her to get a nice fat scholarship, financial aid is not an issue. I’d rather pay full tuition at one of these schools than half-tuition at a school where she wouldn’t get as rewarding an experience.

We were able to visit Bowdoin and Amherst last February. I’d love to visit Williams and Middlebury as well, but I just don’t see a time between now and the ED1 deadline for us to make a trip. She’ll be missing a couple days for the Haverford diversity fly-in program, but there aren’t any long weekends in October where she could visit without missing a lot of school.

Last February, we went on a really fun road trip during her mid-Winter break. We started off in Maine and drove down to Philadelphia. We were able to visit: Colby, Bates, Bowdoin, Wesleyan, Mount Holyoke, Amherst, and Haverford. (We would have visited Bryn Mawr as well, but they were doing a full-day event that would have precluded her from touring Haverford. She was more interested in Haverford, so we just did that.) She was also able to sit in on a class at Colby, Bowdoin, Wesleyan, and Haverford. The main schools I really would like to visit with her if we can do another tour would be Williams, Middlebury, and Vassar.

Yup, that’s exactly what I was hoping for in this thread! :slight_smile: I’ve tried to see if there are any stats on admit rates for ED vs. RD for non-hooked applicants, but I couldn’t find anything.

During her phone conversations with the AOs from Williams and Middlebury, both said they apply the same criteria ED as RD, so she shouldn’t assume that it will give her an advantage. The Middlebury person, though, went on to say that when he was applying to schools, he applied ED, 50% of the class gets filled during ED, and it’s a strong indication that Middlebury is in fact her first choice, so he kind of insinuated that it could help.

9

@dia26: Anyone who tells you that applying ED doesn’t help a qualified student’s chances of admission probably should not be trusted. In this case, however, we’ll call it a miscommunication.

Based on your daughter’s stats & upon her status as a full pay student with a touch of diversity, she should have a strong chance for admission to all of these schools.

If those are her top 4 choices and she will be equally happy at any of the four, then you have, in my opinion, assessed the situation correctly. Apply ED to Williams or Amherst (she’ll fit in better at Amherst I think), then do ED 2 to either Bowdoin or Middlebury depending upon how her interests develop after the ED 1 round.

BUT, that is NOT what she should do, in my opinion. As a full pay student with a 35 ACT & a 3.8 uwGPA, she should apply to all four schools RD. This should result in more than one acceptance. Then she can revisit the schools to which she has been accepted & decide based on reality, not probability.

10

@dia26: Also, you have presented your question in this thread in a manner that should lead all posters to respond in the same fashion. Pick Amherst or Williams for ED 1 because they do not offer ED 2, and, if unsuccessful, move on to the ED 2 schools.

Why is this the wrong approach ?

Not just because her numbers are outstanding & she is well qualified for all 4 colleges on her target list, and not because she offers ethnic & cultural & geographic diversity, and not because she is a full pay student in a financial aid world, but because she has visited at least 5 other schools not on her current list.

She now knows that schools which look great on paper do not always meet expectations upon a visit. She now can be more discerning in her choices because she obviously has found factors which caused her to dislike at least 5 other visited schools.

It would be helpful to know why Bates, Colby, Haverford, Mount Holyoke & Wesleyan did not make the cut to be on her final list. And what other schools has she considered & rejected & why.

11

I understand what you are trying to do, but how does she know that Haverford won’t be what she wants after pursuing a fly in? It’s not clear that she is really seeking fit and fit is probably what will make her truly compelling. Just be mindful of that. She looks like a very good candidate, so her stats aren’t going to be an issue.

Assuming Haverford doesn’t make the cut, I would follow @Publisher 's recommended plan.

One of the things you should know about ED2 is that all the kids who didn’t get into ivies also see that as their second chance, so it too can be a rough pool.

But yes, I think she is wise to use the ED card. If a school wants her, they won’t have to waste a moment worrying about whether she’ll enroll if accepted. And that matters!

12

“I asked her if she got into all four, which would she pick, and she said she honestly didn’t know.”

For one with her qualifications & as a full pay student, this suggests that she should not apply ED.

Nevertheless, if intent on applying ED for the admissions’ bump, then she should realize that as a full pay applicant that there is no out once accepted binding early decision.

13

Haverford is a great college that is comparable to the others on her list. The fact that she made the fly-in program there makes it seem like she will have a good chance of admission at Haverford, so she should consider it seriously indeed and see if it is a good fit for her.

It often does seem ED helps give an applicant a slight edge, whether that is the ‘official’ word or not, so you may want to take that into consideration in planning an ED1 and possibly ED2 strategy. Often, if an applicant likes two colleges roughly equally well, and one is a bit easier to get into by percentages and/or students’ statistics, then the applicant might apply ED1 to the harder admit and ED2 to the slightly easier admit. But if your daughter is not confident she would be thrilled to attend a particular college if accepted, or will have any regrets about not waiting to hear from another school, she should not apply ED.

It is a good idea for her to apply simultaneously to a ‘safer’ college via early action or rolling admissions. In that way, if she is deferred or rejected from the ED college, she still can feel good that she was accepted into another college and not have to worry as much because she will know she definitely will be going to college next year!

14

She probably doesn’t know because she has never stepped foot on 2 of the campuses. I do think there can be some advantage for an unhooked kid in the ED round, but don’t get how you can apply ED sight unseen especially when you have seen other schools and rejected them. So in your case, if your D is really set on an ED strategy, then I think it only makes sense for Amherst and Bowdoin, the 2 schools she has visited. But make no decisions until after the Harverford fly-in.

15

I don’t think she should ED anywhere. She hasn’t visited some of her top choices. She should NOT ED to a school she hadn’t visited period.

16

@TheGreyKing: Great advice !

@dia26: Does your daughter want to be in a like minded community (ACLU, theatre & alternative D&D crowd), or does she prefer a more diverse atmosphere (jocks, preppies, theatre, ACLU, conservatives, etc.). In essence, I am asking how much she wants to grow ? Are her ACLU activities about having a club with like minded friends, or about actually effecting change in a community ?

Again, all I am asking is what did she like or dislike about the visited schools crossed off of her list.

17

It is my understanding that OP’s daughter has already visited Haverford & that it is no longer on her list. Am I right ? Or is she planning a diversity revisit ?

18

Forgive me for being a bit contrarian, but we are talking about four top schools, with very small classes who reject many top students.

You can make a choice in November or in April, but the choice must be made. Choose one and apply ED.

19

@Publisher - It doesn’t sound as if the OP was rejecting the colleges you mention so much as the fact that Williams, Amherst and Middlebury made active attempts to make DD feel pursued and definitely “in the running”. That is so appreciated at this stage of the game.

20

I agree that in an ideal world she should visit all 4 first to get a feel for the fit. But from a game theory point of view applying ED makes perfect sense. You have 4 good choices. Why not make an educated guess at which is the best choice (or which one ED helps most) and try to increase your odds of getting into one of the four?

Way back in the day, I went to NYU law school, having never seen the campus and spending less than 24 hours in NYC on a high school trip 5 years earlier. A few weekend trips to Kansas City in college was as close as I got to experiencing what living in NYC would be like (FYI, to anyone who is in suspense wondering, a weekend in KC bears no resemblance whatsoever to living in Manhattan). I’m not saying that is the best way to do it, but lots of students don’t have the luxury of being able to visit campuses. They get online (or in my case browse through printed reading material) and make a decision.

I’m curious if anyone has opinions on which schools ED helps the most. I haven’t found out a way to separate out the legacies, recruited athletes, etc. that are not competing against the general population for spots.