ED vs. Better App

Applying to College
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<p>I have found the internet to be an incredible help during the college application process so far, but I have one major question that I have not found the answer to online, in a book, or in person. My dilemma is this: I love Northwestern. I haven't visited there yet, but for some reason I am attracted to it in many ways. Let's say that I visit sometime and I decide that it is absolutely the place for me. In that case, I would strongly consider applying ED to maximize my chances of getting in. The problem is that my GPA is lower than it should be due to me having monumental struggles in many areas in sophomore year, leading to extremely disappointing grades which were much lower than I was capable of. Not only that, but that led to me not being recommended for AP US History last year, which is a subject I love and I know I would have excelled in, but now I don't have that challenging course on my resume for a subject I supposedly love. The point is: It all looks bad. The good news is that I worked really hard last year and did the best I could with the classes I had, and achieved a GPA of 4.5 weighted, as opposed to a sub-4 in sophomore year. That for sure improves my application as an increasing trend is better than a decreasing one, but my overall body of work is still admittedly weak for a school like Northwestern. Now: Senior year. I worked my way back up and will be taking 4 AP courses in the fall as opposed to zero last year (I self-studied Micro Econ). Presumably, if I could excel in my classes first semester, my GPA will rise even higher, the trend will look much more optimistic, and I will have proven sophomore year to have been an aberration. Presumably, doing well in the hardest classes possible for first semester will greatly strengthen my application. As far as I understand, by applying ED, Northwestern will be able to see my harder classes but not be able to see how well I do in them, unless I get deferred.</p>

<p>Here is my question: Assuming I feel strongly enough to apply ED to Northwestern (or any school, for that matter), and assuming I get very strong grades in my classes first semester of senior year, and disregarding all other parts of the application (well, if it helps, my SAT was 2270), would I be better served applying ED to get the better odds, or waiting until RD to get the worse odds and the much better transcript? </p>

<p>This question has puzzled me for months, and I know I still have to perform well, but I would greatly appreciate any and all input. If you need any more specifics from me I would be happy to give them. Thanks for reading.</p>

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<p>I would say RD, as that would really mitigate the disadvantages of a low sophomore GPA. That being said, I don’t know much about the advantages of ED as opposed to RD. And btw, the SAT is good - that is, average for NW.</p>

<p>Don’t trust me though.</p>

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<p>Thanks for the input. I’m not totally familiar with the advantages of ED either, and that is something I would like to learn more about.</p>

<p>Any other opinions?</p>

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<p>100% apply ED if northwestern if your first choice and you do not need finical aid. Worst case scenario, you are deferred and you can send your new transcript with a better GPA later.</p>

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<p>What if I get rejected though? You can’t apply RD after you get rejected ED, correct? I guess I don’t see how getting deferred would be the worst-case scenario. I don’t want to run the risk of getting rejected ED and lose any chance of getting accepted without them ever seeing my better transcript. Maybe I don’t understand fully, though. Could you elaborate? Thanks for the reply.</p>

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<p>Just a bump. The current thread on ED is enlightening in itself but I would still appreciate knowing the benefits/disadvantages of holding off for a better transcript vs. applying ED.</p>

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<p>We don’t know what the GPA means at your school. If you’re not top 10% I would wait for RD.</p>

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<p>I disagree with Redroses. If you are competitive for RD then you should be at least deferred ED, regardless of the transcript difference of 1 semester. BUT I would say this decision should depend on the school. For instance, Stanford is notoriously known for flat out denying many EA applicants who might otherwise stood a good shot at RD but as far as I know, most ED schools will almost never reject someone who is even close to competitive.</p>

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<p>As a college counselor of 20 years, I can tell you the above post is just plain incorrect.</p>

<p>NU is wildly more competitive than it was even 3 years ago. They bend in a big way for athletes which is why ED numbers look good. If you are unhooked and are not at minimum top 10%, don’t bother applying ED.</p>

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<p>OK. Take Redroses advice. I will admit that I know nothing about the early admissions game other than the short book I read on the topic (The Early Admissions Game: Joining the Elite 2004). Good luck on your applications!</p>

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<p>Thanks so much, guys.</p>

<p>Unfortunately, I don’t know what my GPA means either. I don’t think my school ranks, but I would say that I am probably at best around the 15th-20th percentile of GPA but with more rigorous courses than most people if you include senior year (for example, I know some people who have 4.5 or very close – higher than me – because they take no honors-weighted courses). It is a very competitive school so if ranking is a big thing then I wouldn’t put much stock in my rank – It almost certainly will not be in the top 10%. Naviance tells me that NU has extremely high standards for kids from my school. Avg. accepted stats: 4.63 Weighted GPA, 2288 SAT; 4/27 accepted in 2010. </p>

<p>Redroses, judging from your advice it seems like I would be better served waiting. However, apart from NU, are most schools like this? Is NU a unique situation where it bends for athletes, etc. in ED or would it be better off waiting for most schools as well? Ironically apyyy, Stanford is the one other school that at this point I would even consider applying ED (or in their case, SCEA) to.</p>

<p>This is very interesting stuff as I am not incredibly familiar with ED and EA and your responses have been very helpful. Thank you all.</p>

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<p>Naviance says it all. It tells you how colleges assess kids from your school. How does anyone have a 4.5 with no weighteed classes?</p>

<p>Stanford is much harder to get into than NU. Much. The unhooked kids gettinng in have near perfect high school records, scores and an over the top EC. It’s not about trend at schools this selective.</p>

<p>My advice would be to ED a more realistic school and/or apply to a wide range RD.</p>

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<p>Because if you get an A in a Curriculum I class, it’s 4.5 on the weighted GPA scale at our school. 5 is the max (A in an honors-weighted course).</p>

<p>Thanks for your help. I may not have a fighting chance but it’s still worth a shot. So far, those are the two schools that really have drawn me in and have pretty much everything I want. If I don’t apply ED to them, I won’t apply ED anywhere, most likely, since I don’t want to be stuck anywhere I’m not sure is the right place for me. Now I’m thinking I should just wait and not apply anywhere ED so my GPA is the highest I can make it and that would give me the best shot, even RD. I am definitely planning to apply to a wide range RD, but I will definitely still give NU and Stanford a shot. Nothing wrong with a couple of reaches, right?</p>

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<p>I think that you should apply RD. It will enable you to further develop your application, while also providing exposure to other financial and college options. You may find another school that suits during the application “season” as well.</p>

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<p>Reaches should still be within your reach. Admissions is not a lottery for the unqualified; no adcom will flip a coin and accept you if you are well below their standards. NU is already reaching based on your rank/Naviance, and Stanford would likely just be a waste of your time and money.</p>

<p>Focus on raising your GPA, and put together a broad, realistic list for RD.</p>

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<p>Just to clarify, I have been spending almost all of my time looking at colleges by looking at colleges that are not NU and Stanford. I have a large list of schools at various levels of selectivity that I am constantly researching and updating, and I am <em>not</em> banking on admission from either of these two schools, as not even the most qualified applicants should count on admission from any top school. There are many lower-ranked schools that I have learned about and visited that I would be comfortable with. I posted this thread because even so, NU and to a lesser extent, Stanford, is simply the school I like the most and want to do the most to maximize my chances of getting into, and ED is one common way to do so, so it is something I wanted to investigate given my (somewhat) unique situation. (That question is the basis of this thread – at its core, a simple comparison of value, and one which I am still interested in although it has been answered very well by some of you.)</p>

<p>I think that in doing so, however, I may have sold myself short a tiny bit. I made my sophomore year story sound horrible, and while it was an extremely difficult time for me to persevere through, I still did better than many people (just not nearly good enough for top schools). However, my junior year my GPA was competitive and if I manage to do well, my first-semester senior year would be in the elite levels for my school – a 4.8 range. Clearly, that does not in any way make up for the early struggles I had when it comes to GPA, but at the very least I will have worked hard to turn my grades around and proven that I can handle an intense courseload and excel, even it is for a short period of time. Does that make me a top-level competitive applicant for schools like Stanford and NU? Nope. Not at all. However, I have some strong recs and good ECs – not in abundance but in dedication and leadership – as well as work, volunteer work, and standardized test scores that are at least in the ranges necessary to be even considered as an applicant (2270 SAT). </p>

<p>I definitely don’t want to come off as arrogant here, and I realize that at any Stanford or Northwestern I apply to, I am in all likelihood a longshot. I don’t know how much they count essays and all that, but I have created a distinct disadvantage for myself. But even if I have at best a 5% chance at Stanford a or 10-15% at Northwestern (or even worse), it is more than worth it for me. Even if I have a 0.5% chance, it is worth it to apply. Nevertheless, I don’t think I’m as <em>completely</em> hopeless as I have apparently seemed, and even if I am, I really don’t want to deny myself any small chance at the schools that I desire the most and have worked hardest to have a chance at. Who knows; maybe they will see something in me that even I don’t. I refuse to forgive myself for blowing sophomore year so much, and I am generally my own harshest critic, rarely willing to give myself credit for very much (even when I deserve it), so in some ways I need to take this risk. Sure, I might blow a hundred bucks on two rejected applications, but the reward – a total self-re-assurance and a huge boost in confidence, as well as the satisfaction gained from attending either of these two “dream” institutions – is more than worth the risk. More importantly, I go into it at least feeling good about doing my best to overcome a very tough situation for me, even if I fell short of the ultimate goal, and knowing that I am prepared for rejection with a deep list of schools that I have a better chance of being accepted to and the knowledge that I would be happy at any of them. Just feeling like I have a tiny, miniscule chance at these schools would be a reward for me, even I don’t get in, because one year ago today I had a 0% chance and that growth is something to at least feel proud of.</p>

<p>I didn’t mean to ramble on for so long, but I felt it was important to clarify my situation and mainly assure you all that I will not be going into this naively thinking that I have a great shot at either school, that I am fully prepared for rejection, and that regardless of my chances, I am going to take this risk. Sometimes it just helps me to write everything out and get it off my chest.</p>

<p>Thanks to anyone who read this far and/or replied. Your feedback has helped me a lot so far. I think that regardless of the school, waiting and improving GPA is the best way to go.</p>