I’m an international student applying in the 2015/2016 cycle. If you’re curious about my stats, I would say that my overall portfolio would put me in decent stead to try for the ivy leagues but they will definitely still be “reaches” for me, especially considering the fact that I am an international student.
I intend to study major in Economics at university and hopefully go into finance/banking if possible. I recognize that in accordance with that Wharton should be the dream school. However, I really love New York City and going to Columbia would help me to taste a wider variety of subjects.
My questions are:
Which schools have lower admission rates for ED (i.e. which is harder to get into)? Although the ED rates for UPenn and Columbia are available online, they do not specify the admission rate of Wharton specifically. Could anyone comment on this please (I’m not from the US so I don’t have sufficient knowledge/exposure to infer).
However: I’m assuming Wharton should be HYSPM-level hard to get into, making it harder to ED into than Columbia?
Does Wharton really give you a lot more opportunities banking/finance wise than Columbia?
I’m having the same question. Looking through past results, it does look like the competition for Wharton is crazy. I would say that Wharton ED rate would be slightly less than Columbia ED. Penn doesn’t release the admission stats for individual schools, so it’s really unknown.
Wharton definitely has an edge over Columbia. In ibanking, there are target schools and non-targets. Both Columbia and Wharton are targets. However, in this group of target schools, there are tiers that separate them. Wharton is in the highest tier, alongside Harvard and Princeton. I would say Columbia is in the next tier, so the difference may be minimal, but present.
First, let me say that Ivy’s are reaches for everyone, regardless of stats. My stats are almost as good as they get, and I was rejected/waitlisted from all of them except for one. That being said, let me answer your questions.
For ED it seems that Penn gives more of an advantage than other schools comparatively. Their ED admission rate is among the highest within the Ivy League, but then again, Columbia is not far behind. Wharton like you said is definitely harder to get into than the other schools at Penn, but nobody outside of the admissions department knows the admission rates for Wharton. My feeling based on prior research is that it’s probably still easier to get into than HYPSM, albeit slightly, if it is your first choice and you have some background in business.
If your goal is finance/banking then there is no better undergraduate school in the world period. If you search the web, you’ll see that Wall Street employers have repeatedly stated they recruit from Wharton first, even over schools like HYPSM. That being said, Columbia’s main advantage is its location, and while this may help you get internships, overall you will probably have more opportunities at Wharton.
Ultimately, you should pick the school that you believe will provide the better overall experience and is a better “match” for you. If you really want to go to New York, then by all means choose Columbia over Wharton. Columbia is a fine school even if it is viewed as “below” Wharton for finance/banking and will still give you incredible opportunities within the field.
I have another question too…if I want to explore my options in my subjects of interest (economics, math, biology), which undergraduate school in Columbia should I be applying too? SEAS, GS or CC?
and for Penn too, which should I be applying for? CAS or SEAS?
A little research would show that economics is in Penn CAS, not Wharton. Though Penn doesn’t release acceptance rates by school, most people here seem to agree it’s about 8-10% for Wharton alone. Columbia (CC and SEAS) had 6.1% this year, with CC traditionally having the lower admit rate than SEAS. Adjusting for ED, I would say it’s about equally difficult to get into both Columbia and Wharton.
@jemster1996 Be careful with the ED admit rates. I am sure you know that most ED offers are reserved for student athletes and legacies. The two schools are reaches for all (other) candidates. You are right, it’s “worse” for internationals. For Class of 2018, Penn admitted 429 internationals out of 6,428 applicants (6.7%). Since most schools in the US want a balanced campus (50:50 boys/girls), we can guess that Penn admitted about 215 international boys and about 215 international girls. And if Penn maintained its diverse student body which includes students from over 100 countries, we can also guess that they admitted only 2-3 Singaporean boys and 2-3 Singaporean girls. Universities also love to have their admits from as many high schools as possible, so are you the only student in your current high school looking at Penn?
Since you are clear on your target schools, you should go ED at one of them. Meanwhile you may also want to look at an ED2 option, perhaps at a liberal arts college with strong econ/finance programs. Good luck!!
@ParentSQ21 wow that is great advice, I am surprised you were aware of all this. I have been tracking these stats for a while too and yes I realise that I have to make sure that I will not ED if some-else in my school who has a higher chance of admission is EDing as well. Thanks for all the help!
If I do not apply for Financial Aid in ED, am offered a place, but unable to attend because it is too expensive, will they black-list me?
My research so far has indicated that the only way to ‘escape’ ED is when they offer you insubstantial financial aid. My family finances may be able to support but I do not want to suck my parents dry at the same time.
Would they still black-list me if I do not attend for financial reasons after being accepted ED? Even though I did not indicate need for financial aid?
If I do not apply for Financial Aid in ED, am offered a place, but unable to attend because it is too expensive, will they black-list me?
My research so far has indicated that the only way to ‘escape’ ED is when they offer you insubstantial financial aid. My family finances may be able to support but I do not want to suck my parents dry at the same time.
Would they still black-list me if I do not attend for financial reasons after being accepted ED? Even though I did not indicate need for financial aid?
Some things to think about…
-Columbia has no undergraduate b-school – economics is a liberal arts course of study.
-At Penn you have the option of studying economics in The College (arts & sciences) or business economics or in Wharton.
-A liberal arts degree is different from a business degree. In at a b-school (Wharton) you would take a business core with introductory classes in subjects such as accounting, finance, IT, etc.
-I suggest you take the time to carefully go through the courses and curriculum at each school and decide what you want.
-You can look at college websites or use google and find admissions rates
-I’d be very careful about applying anywhere ED if you need financial aid.
-Both schools are long-shots for pretty much everyone as admission is hyper-competitive.
@jemster1996 If you ask for FA but the offer is not enough to allow you to attend, you can decline the offer.
If you do not apply for FA, I don’t see how you can “escape” from the ED binding commitment. Your parent and school counselor have to sign the ED commitment too. You and your parent should know about the cost to attend and whether you can afford it. Well-informed counselors will be super strict with ED commitments. As soon as a student receives ED admit, such counselor will ask the student to drop his/her other applications. If your high school uses Naviance, your counselor will “lock” your account. Your counselor will stop supporting you for any new applications. This is to maintain a good relationship between your high school and the ED college for future applicants (your juniors). I suggest you discuss your plan/idea with your parents and consult your counselor.
And you should google articles explaining why applying ED when you need financial aid can be dangerous. Basically you can’t compare offers since you will only get one acceptance if you get into your ED school. If you don’t get a sufficient aid package from that school you will be in trouble. One such article is below, I’m sure there are many others. http://www.petersons.com/college-search/early-decision-financial-aid.aspx
