<p>"People had to prove they had marketable skills to get past Ellis Island and other ports. "</p>
<p>For most of our history, this was an agrarian society and marketable skills then were significantly different than today.</p>
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Thanks for the suggestion, mncollegemom, but I’m not going to ask for my money back from my social studies teacher just yet. My comment was in response to your earlier pronouncements about immigration - that “we have NOT encouraged the immigration of poor, uneducated people, ever” and that “most of the “poor” immigrants were not poor in their home countries.” That is simply incorrect. The talent my ancestors had that was useful to this country was their ability to work at dirty, unskilled factory jobs for 60 hours a week. I assure you they were poor and illiterate. I know there was no “open gate” - an uncle was turned away because he was blind. If you want to discuss the history of immigration, you’ll recall that many laws sprang up from the 1880s on to stem the tide of poor, uneducated immigrants - because there were so many of them, not because there were so few.</p>
<p>“Also, I have yet to hear of a school that does not have computers these days…if they can’t do the work at home, work in a study hall into their schedules during the day where they can access the computers.”</p>
<p>This baffles my mind.</p>
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<p>I knew that, but missed that I had switched them when I proofread. I find it funny that this it the only part of my post that anybody commented on, even though it directly contradicts the beliefs of some on this thread.</p>
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<p>My high school had computers in the library, but it was only 35 or so that were accessible for anytime use. If there was a class in the library using them, or your study hall teacher felt like not letting you go (which they did sometimes), you just couldn’t use them. I had many friends who asked for arrangements to hand-write papers in high school because of these problems who were refused. Study hall offered maybe 35 minutes after transit time to work, and that’s assuming you were able to get one of the limited numbers of computers to yourself. Then you could try to stay after school, but the late buses frequently weren’t running, which would necessitate having someone picking you up from school. It took me about 35 minutes to walk home, and I lived on the side of town that was closer to the school (and safer). Some people on the sound side of town probably live an hour walk away. That’s assuming that staying after was even an option for people who may had needed to work or take care of younger siblings after school…</p>
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I don’t deny that there are many who take comfort in where they live and the services they are given. Call them ‘lifers’ but do they know any other way of life? And yes, the process seems ‘easy’: Food stamps that are like a debit card at the large grocery chain, significantly reduced housing costs at the projects, free this and free that. In our program, we give free bicycles in the spring to the kids, free winter coats in October, free backpacks in September. I honestly don’t think the kids know any other “way”. Does that make them entitled?</p>
<p>I’m not in their shoes, so I refuse to describe how they feel. All I know is that my students show great appreciation for the help I give them and that makes me feel good and want to continue.</p>
<p>mncollege, I would do no good watching all the people come into our social services dept each day. Why would i do that? I can’t change that mindset. Instead, I try to reach the kids and show them a world beyond the small lens they have.</p>
<p>absweetmarie: there are numerous studies that show how the reading gap widens over time. “Reading level in 1st grade is an astonishing predictor of reading achievement into high school.” (Catts et al., 1999, Cunningham and Stanovich, 1997; Shaywitz et al, 1999, Fletcher et al, 1994.) The proportion of students beyond 3rd grade who read below grade is about 60-70, depending on the grade and year of assessment (and according to NAEP, about 36% of fourth graders score below basic reading). About half of the nation fail to complete high school. Nationally, 25% of all adults are functionally illiterate. Reading failure begins early, takes hold, and affects students for life.</p>
<p>Thanks for the info, limabeans, you who have named yourself after my least favorite legume.</p>
<p>mncollegemom,</p>
<p>You’re just egregiously wrong about our nation’s immigration history. You really should read up on it. It’s true, some would-be immigrants were turned back at Ellis Island–but only about 2%, and mostly because of disease or disability, criminal backgrounds, or because they were suspected of being mentally ill, mentally incompetent, or “subversives.” But millions of poor Eastern and Southern Europeans immigrated to the U.S. in the late 19th and early 20th centuries, until a statute enacted in 1921 clamped down with rigid (and patently discriminatory) ethnic quotas. Most of the Eastern European Jews, Poles, Serbs, Croatians, Slovenians, Italians and others who immigrated to this country came from roughly 1880 to 1920, and they came in great waves. The vast majority of them were poor. Same is true of the (mostly earlier) waves of Irish immigration, for example during the Great Potato Famine of the 1840s and 1850s when the potato crop failed repeatedly in Ireland due to potato blight, and a million Irish died of starvation and disease, and another million emigrated in desperation, mostly to the United States. </p>
<p>My grandfather was one of those impoverished immigrants. He was an orphaned, landless peasant in his native land, indentured to a landowner who regularly beat him. His older brother who had preceded him in coming to America sent him just enough money for passage to New York in steerage, he (unlawfully) ran away from his indenture and sailed on the first ship leaving for New York. He arrived virtually penniless and unskilled (though he must have had some money left over after paying for his passage, because Immigration required each immigrant or immigrant household to show they had $18), speaking not a word of English, not knowing where he’d go or what he’d do, but he knew coming to America was his best chance of escaping the grinding poverty and brutality of his native land, where not everyone was poor but those who were poor were desperately poor, with virtually no chance of upward social mobility. He was met at the docks in New York by a labor agent who bought him a train ticket to northern Michigan where a job awaited him in a lumber camp. Life in the lumber camps was pretty brutal, the working conditions dangerous, the pay a pittance, but it was a job, he was a free man in a way he was not in his native country, and he got his start. But he was “the working poor,” earning minimum wage (after there was a minimum wage) his entire working life.</p>
<p>His story is hardly unique. Have you ever read Emma Lazarus’ famous poem “The New Colossus,” inscribed at the base of the Statue of Liberty? "</p>
<p>“Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me . . .”</p>
<p>That’s not fantasy, that’s the essence of the American immigrant experience. And it served our country well—the great waves of industrialization of the late 19th and early 20th centuries wouldn’t have been possible without all that cheap, unskilled immigrant labor. These are the people who built and operated the steel mills in Pittsburgh, the slaughterhouses and meatpacking plants in Chicago, the automobile assembly lines in Detroit. </p>
<p>Immigration is much more selective now, and it’s harder for poor people to immigrate. But millions do, some under family reunification programs, some as refugees, some under other classifications. The Hmong who came to Saint Paul and Minneapolis, for example, came first as refugees after they were mercilessly persecuted in their native Laos and Vietnam after having served as allies of the U.S. Military and the CIA during the Vietnam War. And once that initial refugee population was established, they were able to bring over family members under the immigration law’s family reunification program. They’ve come here desperately poor, in most cases from refugee camps in Thailand where they’re subsisted on United Nations and international aid organization handouts for years. So despite stricter immigration laws, we’re still bringing large numbers of poor immigrants into this country legally.</p>
<p>It seems to me that people often take their limited exposure and experience with true poverty and make widespread generalizations. </p>
<p>Addressing immigrants, I live in an URBAN area, not a town that may have one family of immigrants, we have whole communities of various degrees of immigrants. Many people here are refugees seeking a better life, and yes they do not have the education that we do. That is why they are coming here. I am proud that my community welcomes these people, provides services, training, and ESL services. The average student spends about two years in an ESL school until they are ready to join the regular school. My Ds school has welcomed some sudanese students. The school is richer for the experience. Immigration is truly the story that makes this country what it is. I think peope are uncomfortable with the new hues that today’s immigrants come in. </p>
<p>Addressing after school programs, again, I live in an urban area not a suburb, town, village. Many kids do not participate in after school services for safety’s sake. You can take the bus home, or walk and risk being mugged, harmed, or even shot. Those in proverty live in very violent communities. The risk of violence is very real for these students. </p>
<p>The way I can see it, people have a choice to b**h and whine about the parents that dont care (I don’t believe that is true), or you can focus on solutions that help to bridge the gap for the children and the community as a whole. </p>
<p>I am an employer in a community that has a 46% drop out rate. That is not sustainable.</p>
<p>bclintonk~Thank you fro your beautiful post on immigration.
nellieh~ You hit the nail on the head.</p>
<p>As an immigrant to this country who had kids that started in ESL classes, i am sadden by some of the posts i read here. </p>
<p>I highly doubt that people enjoy being poor and uneducated. Please stop judging and pay it forward. :D</p>
<p>Thank you, bclintonk!</p>
<p>I wanted to write as much, but you said it better than I would have.</p>
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Unfortunately, many non-English speakers aren’t given the option of attending classes in English. They are often warehoused in classrooms conducted in Spanish, even given standardized tests in Spanish. Family preference does not come in to play.</p>
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You should get out more, LOL! Not only do many schools not have computers accessble to students, but many schools don’t even have the luxury of study halls.</p>
<p>Zmom, so glad you pointed that out 
Many of the schools in my community are so overcrowded, a room for study hall is unthinkable. I’ve seen therapy (OT, PT. SLT) sessions and often half a class working in the halls. </p>
<p>As to language, I have seen dual language programs (not the same as bilingual programs) work very well.</p>
<p>again, in schools that do not have computers accessible to students and have low connectivity at home, they will not require online assignments…</p>
<p>Understood. My point is that some kids don’t have access to a safe, quiet place for studying/homework regardless of what tools are needed.</p>
<p>mncollegemom~seriously this is the solution no online assignments?? Please educate yourself before coming here and passing judgement on situations you have very little knowledge of. Dare i remind you of one of your pots were you correlate online assignment to less paper clutter in your house. How can you even think this way? Some of those kids are struggling to get the basic necessities.Their parents to put food on the table…</p>
<p>No 2education–I replied to someone else that said that online assignments would be tough and I said they work HERE because most people have computers and in communities where most people did not HAVE computers they would not require kids to do online assignments. Where exactly did I say it was the answer to the problem?</p>
<p>mncollegemom, please read my post, directly above 2education’s.</p>
<p>123mama–read my post #139</p>
<p>I am not sure I see your connection btw post 139 and HOW these kids can be successful. again,
“Understood. My point is that some kids don’t have access to a safe, quiet place for studying/homework regardless of what tools are needed.”</p>
<p>eta: I tried to quote your post #139, but it didn’t work, sorry.</p>
<p>mn~Please read the posts in order slowly and then answer accordingly politely.
So no computers, no online assignments, and how do you suggest they learn to work in a computerized environment?? They should not because their parents are not involved i got you.</p>