<p>2–where did I say that, ever? The point is the kids are where they are BECAUSE their parents are not involved, that does not mean the same thing is that they can never get out of that situation…What are you doing to help? What is your solution? How can you get these kids to work on computers so they can work in a computerized society? Why are you picking, out of context, one line about a specific post someone else saying and twisting it around?</p>
<p>taking a big breath and counting to 10.</p>
<p>mncollegemom, I understand what you’re saying. What I’m saying is that the logistics involved in giving these kids access to education and a way out are complex.</p>
<p>Thanks P56!</p>
<p>mncollege, I read your post 139. Whew! Who were you writing to? It’s truly unfortunate you think this way. How would this help anyone? Maybe you don’t know, personally know, anyone in these curcumstance, because I doubt if you did, you wouldn’t say this. Not just because it’s mean, but also because it’s not true. </p>
<p>The biggest thing that can help is for everyone to STOP MAKING EXCUSES for why they are where they are and just buck it up and do something. If you always give people the excuse of 'well, it’s ok, your mom was an alcoholic so you didn’t know any better" that is exactly what people are going to continue to believe. The comment should be “I’m sorry your mom made bad choices, what are YOU going to do so you don’t end up there too?”</p>
<p>The only answer to that question I see is "I’m 6 years old (or 8, or even 12), and powerless. :(</p>
<p>Let’s all unknot our knickers. Sometimes the best way to handle an invitation to a snit fest is to walk away. Walk slowly away. </p>
<p>There is poverty in this country that is so grindingly desperate that most of us can’t possibly imagine living it, let alone living it as a child. Sometimes it is easier to blame the kids stuck in conditions they don’t control than it is to admit that there is a problem that can’t be solved with a little pluck and willpower.</p>
<p>Great article in Rolling Stone, issue 1148, January 19, 2012. “Girl on “Wire”” written by Ben Wallace-Wells about the small neighborhoods of East Baltimore that one social epidemiologist who studies them has called “The Cyst”, because they can seem so perfectly walled off from the rest of society. Kids from those neighborhoods do sometimes make it out, but as was stated far, far up thread, it takes a strong adult in their lives to set them on that path. But for the most part, a child growing up in The Cyst of inner city Baltimore is three times more likely to commit a crime that the average American. Seven out of every ten houses is boarded up. Forty percent of the adult population is addicted to drugs. Seventy percent of adult males is permanently outside the legal labor force. Ninety percent of the households are headed by single parents.</p>
<p>And some of the posters on this thread have the gall to say those kids just need to work a little harder and get to the library to get ahead?!</p>
<p>I live in one of the wealthiest counties in the United States, by the way. It is a short half hour drive from my house to the The Cysts of East Baltimore. The income disparities are enormous.</p>
<p>'The biggest thing that can help is for everyone to STOP MAKING EXCUSES for why they are where they are and just buck it up and do something. If you always give people the excuse of 'well, it’s ok, your mom was an alcoholic so you didn’t know any better" that is exactly what people are going to continue to believe. The comment should be “I’m sorry your mom made bad choices, what are YOU going to do so you don’t end up there too?” </p>
<p>does this strike anyone else that this rant eerliy recalls the thinking behind the line - “Let them eat cake”?
sheesh… some people are unbelievably myopic.</p>
<p>Eastcoascrazy~Thank you for trying to explain to some privileged people what is really out there in their backyards,sometimes you need to say it plain and simple as well.:p</p>
<p>mncollegemom~
</p>
<p>Those are your ignorant statements, taken in contest. Read them and please educate yourself. You should be ashamed!</p>
<p>What do I do? I pull up my sleeves and pay it forward. See, i came off the boat and was blessed by this country so i do no belittle people that have less than me because I have been there 
What do you do for your country?</p>
<p>Have a nice life :D</p>
<p>Most of the “poor” immigrants were not poor in their home countries. They had jobs, had livelihoods, etc. They were poor hear because they ran into signs around town that said things like “Irish need not apply” and were not able to find work when they got here.</p>
<p>Lordy- what are they teaching in elementary school these days?</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Some posts on this thread might be what David Foster Wallace was talking about when he said, “blind certainty, a close-mindedness that amounts to an imprisonment so total that the prisoner doesn’t even know he’s locked up.”</p>
<p><a href=“http://moreintelligentlife.com/story/david-foster-wallace-in-his-own-words[/url]”>http://moreintelligentlife.com/story/david-foster-wallace-in-his-own-words</a></p>
<p>i agree with 2ed, limabeans and many others, … whether their parents are involved or not, if the circumstance is that the child doesnt have the benefit of language, money, computers, etc…the blame isnt on the child for not pulling themselves up, nor is it necessarily on the parents (sure in some cases it might be…but a generalization imo is silly) … these are children, they cant go out and make it happen.</p>
<p>while we post on this board about, which is better… 55K per year out of pocket or take merit money at a lower tier school and only pay 20K per year, the cost of study abroad programs, …these kids and their parents are worried about the cost of a loaf of bread, never mind the cost of school supplies</p>
<p>Thanks for the link to the David Foster Wallace commencement speech, frazzled1. it made me cry. (And also to resolve, for reals, to finish Infinite Jest.)</p>
<p>Thanks frazzled1 – I also bookmarked the link to share with D1. </p>
<p>I stepped away this morning and returned to find what feels more like discord than discourse, though I value the ability to disagree civilly. And, I also think this topic is critical for our society, for reasons I mentioned pages and pages ago. Wishing all of you a peaceful evening!</p>
<p>I just reread it again myself, with the same result - the last few paragraphs always make me cry. A brilliant guy, with such a generosity of spirit. I always learn something from him.</p>
<p>
True. My D’s school doesn’t require any online work. Unfortunately, her kids don’t learn how to make a PowerPoint, how to make an Excel spreadsheet, even things like how to spellcheck and online research or how to cite. That right there is an almost insurmounable gulf between the haves and the have nots.</p>
<p>Minnesota actually has a pretty proud track record as a place that’s been welcoming to immigrants, a place that’s worked really hard to create opportunities for economically disadvantaged people, and a place where people of all races, ethnicities, and religious affiliations can not only find their own niche but be welcomed as part of the diverse and dynamic community that is our state. In fact, I’d say Minnesota is easily among the top quartile and arguably among the top decile of states in all those dimensions. </p>
<p>We have the fourth lowest poverty rate among states, for one thing—not because we’re so harsh on poor people, but because we have a dynamic economy that produces one of the lowest unemployment rates in the nation. We’re fourth or fifth in lowest percentage of our population without health insurance, and have some of the lowest infant mortality rates and highest life expectancies in the nation–to go along with major assets like the University of Minnesota medical system and the world-renowned Mayo Clinic. In per capita income, we rank #11 among the 50 states–with a lower cost of living than most of the states that rank ahead of us. We’re #1 among the 50 states in home ownership. We also rank high in educational attainment with a HS graduation rate well over 90%, and we’re among the top 10 or 11 states in percentage of our population with a bachelor’s degree or higher–with the Twin Cities ranked among the nation’s leaders in that regard. Our cities are also perennially ranked among the “most literate” in the nation.</p>
<p>In short, Minnesota is pretty much a land of opportunity for poor people, immigrants, and anyone looking for a better life.</p>
<p>Minnesota against Georgia? Not even close.</p>
<p>^Not to mention that Minnesota is home to the late great Sen. Paul Wellstone and Sen. Al Franken. So clearly not all Minnesotans think like mncollegemom.</p>
<p>Can we atlk about this:</p>
<p>while we post on this board about, which is better… 55K per year out of pocket or take merit money at a lower tier school and only pay 20K per year, the cost of study abroad programs, …these kids and their parents are worried about the cost of a loaf of bread, never mind the cost of school supplies </p>
<p>(PS…how do you copy someone’s post where it shows blue…can’t figure that out, but I digress.)</p>
<p>Now…here is an example from my life. My boys have a friend, a very sweet boy. I have him over to our house… He lives with a single mom who works at our daycare and at Walmart. There are 3 boys with 3 different dads ages: 14, 11 and 7. The oldest has been held back. He doesn’t know basic things he should know, but he tries hard. The mom struggles… Now… her oldest has a smart phone ??? I have three children ( 16, 14, and 10) and my oldest just got his first phone and it is just a regular phone… I cannot imagine paying for a smart phone for a teenager. ( Yes I know tons do it, but if I were barely getting by…) Our youth minister has dealt with youth who don’t have a bed in their rooms, but there is a giant huge flat screen tv in the living room of the 2 bedroom apartment. There is a financial disconnect. I’m not quite sure how to deal with. How do you re-educate people ( not just low income either) that they should be saving money, putting money away for college or votech training and not paying monthly fees for cable or data plans for cell phones??? My boys were on a mission trip at soup kitchens in Dallas one weekend ( we live in rural Texas). One afternoon the spent a couple of hours at the Galleria. My boys were appalled at the prices there. ( That is what you get when you have a mom who never buys anything if it isn’t on sale or if she has a coupon. There is some kind of shoe that everyone wears at the youth… My boys don’t get it. They think shoes from Academy or Walmart are fine if they work…) They didn’t buy anything… Their friend bought some kind of expensive hat… ( The one whose mom works in the daycare.) Now my husband is a doctor. I didn’t give mine any spending money. If they want frivolity, then they can pay for it themself… </p>
<p>So to me this is another thing I don’t know how to solve. Yes, they may be worried about bread, but then since it seems that every kid in school has a cell phone and now smart phones, they feel like their child should have it so they won’t feel left out… So they are even more behind… As I said, I don’t know what the answer is… I don’t even know how to approach this nice woman… Who am I to tell her how to spend her money??? I’m just some rich doctor’s wife… So I say nothing…</p>
<p>know what you mean choirfarm…it is difficult to know what to say or think… </p>
<p>about the cell phone though… it could be one of the free cell phones that are given to people with low income. free phone free minutes (not sure they give out “smart” phones though)…</p>
<p>about the tv… i can only guess. but perhaps, the mother realizes that she wont ever be able to save 250K for college, but if she works hard, she can make a “small” monthly payment so her kids have some entertainment…maybe that is all she can give them…not a choice i would make in this situation, but perhaps she thinks she is giving her kids the best gift she can?</p>
<p>Tangent from main topic, but response to choirfarm: </p>
<p>It seems to me that financial education is sorely lacking in this country, among all classes, really. While kids whose parents have investments and large assets may absorb some knowledge from overhearing conversations throughout their childhood, there does not seem to be a concerted approach to teaching students about the real world of life expenses (econ class here remains more theoretical). And while many lower-income families were duped by predatory lending in the housing fiasco, many middle- and upper-income families have found themselves underwater with their mortgages or forced into short sales. Many very smart and well-educated people thought that housing prices would just continue to go up… Now, the savings rate has started to go up in this country, but…</p>
<p>If, no matter how much you try to save, you will be unable to save enough to pay outright for : the down payment on a home, a car, a child’s college expenses, braces, does that become a disincentive to save? Is the concept of saving foreign to many people who have grown up living month-to-month, and even to those who grew up with ATMs (instant cash whenever)? I know that some people rent-to-own their furniture and flat screen TVs, over time paying much more for them than they would have cost outright. So, it seems that they have put out a huge outlay, but in fact they are managing to pay little by little, and if they fall behind, the company comes and takes it all away. If you can’t afford to pay for a movie, bowling, occasional meal out, or other forms of entertainment, maybe the TV is what you do. </p>
<p>We were pretty frugal with frills (video games, smart or even cell phones, etc) for our kids, but we were criticized by family members for paying for afterschool daycare when the kids were in elementary school. As well, there was a notion that we should be putting money into having our house spiffy rather than paying for some of the extracurriculars or lessons or braces or …</p>
<p>They also see it wasteful that our D1 goes to a top 5 or so national uni, despite that with fin aid, it costs the same as sending her to our state flagship (also a nationally recognized school, but since cost was the same or less, and she worked so hard, we figured it was her choice. Either way, it is a bit of a stretch for us financially, but one that we are willing to make.)</p>
<p>Similarly, we have neighbors who have out and out said, after finding out where our d was attending --they asked multiple times where our kid got into college and were not satisfied with an evasive answer-- why would you pay for that? Why not have your kid go to community college, live at home and go to the state directional school in town? To which we have to reply that, indeed, that would be a wonderful option as well. (Not a good fit for her, but if that was what we could afford or were willing to pay, she would have made it work.)</p>
<p>Long story long, people differ in what they consider to be necessary expenditures or appropriate use of funds. Further, kids may have relatives who are slightly better off who gift them a phone and cover the cost of a data plan–no one would know. Very low-income parents may sign up for holiday gift programs, some of which give kids things like game boys or brand-name tennies. Same kids then are seen out and about with ipods, Nikes, etc. and the notion may be,“Why are those parents who rely on free lunch buying their kids expensive stuff?” We really don’t know if they are. They may be, should we judge them for that?</p>