Education Gap Grows Between Rich and Poor

<p>I work full-time (more than full time most days) and my schedule is only open in the evenings, so the HS level would probably work better with my schedule. I have several friends with more flexible schedules who are paired with elementary age children to mentor them. They meet once a week during the school day.</p>

<p>There are plenty of ways to help - it can be overwhelming to consider all the needs; for my sanity I have to keep it manageable to what I can do personally.</p>

<p>When my D applied to college, H was unemployed. I found out about application fee waivers, Questbridge, etc as a result. I had to find out about them on my own. Sometimes it’s hard to ask about/for some of the things. My kids took several AP classes but I couldn’t afford for them to take all the tests at the end of the year, so just paid for 1 or 2 that I felt they would score the highest on. I thought about asking the school if there was any help paying for tests but couldn’t get my nerve up.</p>

<p>I think it will be easier to explore those resources when it’s not me/my own kids who need the help.</p>

<p>It addresses the issue perfectly because there is no value of getting an education if that is your mindset–everyone will do for me vs me doing for myself. The point is to CHANGE that way of thinking. How to go about this has been the issue for decades because nothing seems to be working and the problem is only getting worse.</p>

<p>Of course most people on aid are children. They are in families receiving aid and when you have, usually, one adult, you usually have more children in that household than adults. DUH. People with means and ability will always beat anyone esle to an economic goal. Most wealthy families today did not inherit the money–they have two highly educated smart people producing soon to be highly educated smart children. Unless they come up with a non-market way of handicapping them it will tend to perpetuate itself for at least a few generations. You could confiscate half their income and nothing would change much. They would still be far ahead in too many ways.
I do not believe that ability is easily transferred by just taking their money.</p>

<p>A couple of girls from my kids’ high school class became pregnant shortly after graduation. They are now scraping by in waitressing and at Starbucks. They had to drop out of college. The fathers are trying to work and attend college to support the baby. They have made life so much more difficult for themselves. </p>

<p>Then there are the kids who flunk classes in high school and don’t graduate as a result. They are over 16, so you cannot keep them in school. They either were not smart enough to go to college or they were not disciplined enough to do the work. Either way they are not college material.</p>

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This seems to be strictly a matter of opinion, and is not founded in expertise. I am unconvinced.</p>

<p>I think college costs might be one part of this. I read that a survey found that a great deal of people drop out due to money reasons. The poor simply as a whole can’t afford to keep up with the increasing rise in tuition at colleges, even if some can go to schools with good financial aid or scholarships.</p>

<p>EDIT: I thought this article might have been about college. For secondary school, I think this might just be an effect of growing inequality of society, but not really the cause of it.</p>

<p>I believe a bigger gap is between students who drop out before high school graduation & those who attempt college- not those who have the background to attend college and just don’t have the money to continue.</p>

<p>It is slowly improving- but what about the kids who dropped out before high school?
[National</a> High School Graduation Rates Improve - High School Notes (usnews.com)](<a href=“http://www.usnews.com/education/blogs/high-school-notes/2011/06/13/national-high-school-graduation-rates-improve]National”>http://www.usnews.com/education/blogs/high-school-notes/2011/06/13/national-high-school-graduation-rates-improve)</p>

<p>mncollegemom,</p>

<p>I would argue that this “everyone will do for me” mindset is not as prevalent as you seem to think and that it simplifies the problem in a way that is sure to make it difficult for rational discussion to ensue. As I said earlier, I don’t have an activist’s personality, I’m discouraged by progress that has been made so far and I don’t feel I have the expertise needed to make pronouncements about what would work on a large scale. I do know, however, that compassion and empathy can go a long way on a person-to-person level. I don’t think ascribing this “mindset” to one person, much less a large group of people, is helpful.</p>

<p>I’m posting this opinion also from the NYTimes, as further food for thought. It refers to the “HOT” book-Charles Murray’s latest book, Coming Apart- that has generated a lot of discussion recently.</p>

<p><a href=“Opinion | The White Underclass - The New York Times”>Opinion | The White Underclass - The New York Times;
“The White Underclass”
NICHOLAS D. KRISTOF</p>

<p>"Persistent poverty is America’s great moral challenge, but it’s far more than that.</p>

<p>As a practical matter, we can’t solve educational problems, health care costs, government spending or economic competitiveness so long as a chunk of our population is locked in an underclass. Historically, “underclass” has often been considered to be a euphemism for race, but increasingly it includes elements of the white working class as well. "</p>

<p>Those who have an interest should also read this report. "In 1965, Daniel Patrick Moynihan released a famous report warning of a crisis in African-American family structures, and many liberals at the time accused him of something close to racism. In retrospect, Moynihan was right to sound the alarms. "
[U.S&lt;/a&gt;. Department of Labor – History – The Negro Family - The Case for National Action](<a href=“http://www.dol.gov/oasam/programs/history/webid-meynihan.htm]U.S”>http://www.dol.gov/oasam/programs/history/webid-meynihan.htm)</p>

<p>My apologies if it has already been posted.</p>

<p>Another issue that hasn’t been addressed is the vanishing factory job. Everyone knows you used to be able to get a factory job out of high school, or even without a HS degree. A few days’ training and you knew all you had to know about the widget you were responsible for installing.</p>

<p>An article in Atlantic Monthly explains the new requirements for setting up and running the high-tech robotics involved in new factory jobs. Higher math is needed, for example. This is not something you can pick up on the job, or easily train for while working the lower-level line job. There are no lower-level line jobs. The gap is too great for most people to jump or for companies to spend the time/money training people.</p>

<p>I can only add that education gap exists, but not for all poor. Some very pooor families are taking advantages of all opportunites and end up with kids graduating from Med. schools, Law schools, various UG’s with various degrees. Some are not just poor, they even do not have good English and they are not driving, they are actually getting assistance with both from their kids.<br>
Education gap is by choice. Those who decided to get education, have many opportunites in this country to do so very successfully.</p>

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<p>Reasonable people will differ on how to approach this issue, but this statement is utter nonsense. Many people with low incomes value education and take advantage of all opportunities. Many do not even know of all the opportunities. Many who do not know of all opportunities could take full advantage of them if they did know. Many kids who are low achievers could better themselves academically with intensive help. Some can’t—and a low income will only make matters worse in those cases. The notion that all people need to do is “decide” to get an education is ridiculously reductive.</p>

<p>“They either were not smart enough to go to college or they were not disciplined enough to do the work. Either way they are not college material.”</p>

<p>What? You think that most 16-year-olds do their work because of self-discipline? I don’t think so. I think they come from homes where a grown-up is watching to make sure the work gets done, and there will be rewards and punishments flowing from that choice. Teenage performance has a lot more to do with parenting and circumstances than with whether the child is “college material” in the first place.</p>

<p>(Speaking as the dropout Harvard graduate.)</p>

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<p>No it isn’t. Its a blanket argument against feigning surprise that the education gap is widening between rich and poor. If you encourage the large-scale immigration of millions of poor, uneducated people, you are going to get…surprise!..tens of millions of poor, uneducated people.</p>

<p>Btw, a generation ago (mine), only about 10% of us graduated from college. Today, its something like 50-60% go on to college, and 30-40% graduate. Therefore, many more today are getting an advanced education. All those new college students can’t be coming from rich uneducated families, can they?</p>

<p>It is nonsense based on your experience. It makes huge sense and actually points out to ability to control your own destiny.<br>
Look who is huge ORM at Med. Schools? Yes, who these people, whose parents sometime do not speak English and being driven to events by their kids? Many of them are very poor, more poor than others think so. If these people know about opportunites, then how others missed it?
Again, you have your experience and I have mine. Our opinions are based on our experiences.<br>
You can provide whole ton of help. If person does not want to achieve, your help will not make him…and I have met lots of those also, including the ones who went so far as to go to colleges, then what? In loosers’ cases, it was nothing…you can even gradute from college…and end up with nothing…because it is up to a person and nobody else. Opportunites are plentiful.</p>

<p>There is a reason why we have support services for low income families. When school is in session, is the only time when some kids get two meals a day. ( & at that, it is not much- at least in our district). Try studying, when you are hungry, or when you are providing child care for your siblings so your parents can work/look for work. Try getting a good education when you have to move often & don’t know if you will be at the same school next month.
Teachers assigned to low income schools are often young & inexperienced. Not an optimal environment for our most challenged students.</p>

<p>Personal anecdotes don’t mean a lot unless backed up by data.</p>

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<p>[Education</a> & Socioeconomic Status Fact Sheet](<a href=“http://www.apa.org/pi/ses/resources/publications/factsheet-education.aspx]Education”>Education and Socioeconomic Status Factsheet)</p>

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<p>They missed it because they missed it! Because the people around them missed it. Because they went to schools where good teachers were overworked or where the teachers weren’t good. Because their fathers were dealing drugs. Because their mothers were working two low-paying jobs and didn’t read to them. Because, because, because… This is not to excuse anyone’s bad choices but to suggest that kids may not learn about or value educational opportunities for a whole host of reasons that have nothing to do with their motivation. To suggest otherwise is to be blind to the differences in people’s socioeconomic circumstances. </p>

<p>In short, I am not calling your position nonsense based on my experience! I am calling it nonsense based on sober consideration of the fact that while there are many highly intelligent and motivated people at lower incomes there are others who need significantly more remediation to succeed. I’m talking about remediation not only in terms of education but also in terms of knowing what the opportunities are. If it is your personal experience that a low income needn’t prevent someone from getting a good education, bravo. That’s terrific.</p>

<p>“Try studying, when you are hungry”
-Being hungry these days is probably the best for all of us, not just kids. We would spend much less money on medicine, if all of us decided to go hungry. I am in support of this idea. It is not hard to study or work or even exerice when you are hungry. Not making your system to coninuosly digesting food and overworking on this task, actually will give you much more energy. Many kids (yes, more so “poor” kids) are lethargic, looking for snacks, sitting down all the time, their bodies are busy digesting what they are constantly putting into their stomachs. Seems that our “supportive” system is “helping” them in becoming obese, we have achieved very well in this area.</p>

<p>MiamiDAP–I agree, it is about choice. No one said it was EASY, but maybe in Oak Park they don’t have the resources laid out like they do here but every day there is something on the school announcements about scholarships that have come in to the office, planning meetings about going off to college, class meetings starting in middle school about course planning to go off to college and for those choosing to go the community college/trade route as well. Letter after letter, email after email. If you “miss” all of that, is IS your choice to ignore the situation.</p>

<p>Hanna, yes, I do think a 16 year old should have the self-discipline to study and do homework without being nagged by mom or dad. The motivation has to be there. Mom won’t be there when in a year or two that kid is in college.</p>