<p>"They missed it because they missed it! Because the people around them missed it. "
-so you are saying that while people who do not know anything about US system and do not even know English had easy time learning about opportunites, while others do not have ANY chances, never heard about people who went to colleges, on scholarships, some need based, many Merit based, they have no idea about many employers actually paying for higher education…and they di not know any of that…because they were born in the USA. This is iincorrect explanation. The valid explanation is that everybody knows about all opportunities, they have information from people surrounding them from birth, from media, from PC that everybody owns despite calling themselves poor. More so, there are no real poor in the USA, we can call them poor based on our own criteria, but this is by far not criteria used by average reasonable people in other countries in the world. Most poor in the USA will be considered rich by others outside of the USA, who could only dream about such standard of living.
We are good here, celebrate, do not put yourself down!!</p>
<p>mncollegemom: Of course my kid’s school offers all these things! That’s completely beside the point. We are not talking about a gap in paying attention to counselors’ nagging! We are talking about a gap in achievement that begins well before a kid reaches high school. There’s more to changing people’s behaviors and teaching them about opportunities than sending emails or posting announcements. You have to work on people’s readiness to learn and to hear. That is a long, drawn-out process. If a kid gets to high school without a belief in the value of education that has been drilled into her from the day she was born, no amount of announcements and info sessions are going to help!</p>
<p>MiamiDAP: I am not saying any of the things you say I am saying. You are completely missing the point. I know that there are many motivated people (whether born here or not, whether native speakers or not) who have done well for themselves and their families. Bully for them. There are plenty of people who do not have the wherewithal to avail themselves of those opportunities, and the reasons for this are complex. Anyone who thinks this comes down to “choice” should read the articles menloparkmom posted. Or read any number of books and articles on the subject.</p>
<p>I also can bring a personal example. My Medical student D. (Med. School is very busy time, there is no comparison to UG, student charish every minute of their time) volunteer to tutor HS student in inner city, helping girl speicifically with college application. They were moving along, going thru details of girls’ essay. My D. is very good tutor, it was her paying job at her UG, everybody likes her explanaions. Everyntually, the HS girl started being late, and then did not come at all to several sessions without any kind of communication to my D. or anybody else.
So, according to all here, it is not her fault, correct? She had no idea that without applying to college, she cannot attend college? This is what is promoted by many here. It is not true at all.<br>
I will assure that if girl was actually paying for this, she would finish her application the best possible way, using services that she paid for and she would successfully apply to colleges. Free services will work for people who provide them (my D. will mention it in her resume), but many time do not work on recieving end (as with school provided junk lunches as well as with many other services including preventing people looking for the jobs). But it definitely makes us here feeling good about ourselves, doesn’t it? Well we give, why not, who cares about consiquences?</p>
<p>“they have information from people surrounding them from birth”–</p>
<p>MiamiDAP, I am starting to think you live in a bubble. There are people in urban ghettos who are surrounded from birth by people who do not believe in higher education and who say they are getting “above their station” or “acting white” if they try to better themselves. There are people in poor rural areas (or mountainous areas) who do not have internet and no, they couldn’t afford a PC anyway. There are children who grow up in foster homes or spend part of their time in homeless shelters. </p>
<p>Why do you insist on saying that everyone has the opportunities that you obviously are acquainted with? You are becoming exasperating.</p>
<p>Right, except that the parents of those kids heard that all in school, programs like Head Start have been around for decades trying to get the message across, schools have had all kinds of intervention programs for kids not performing up to par staring in the preschool years, parents have had information sent home every step of the way, conferences with teachers, school administration either attended or skipped but at least they have been told about getting your kids educated, doing well in school, various social workers, case managers, program directors they have dealt with along the way for food stamps, health insurance, etc, etc., etc., etc., etc. It isn’t just at the high school level. You have to make a conscious effort NOT to know about everything out there.</p>
<p>TatinG–how many kids are in college because they were fortunate to have parents that nagged them about homework or turning in college apps on time? Most of us should say, “There but for the grace of God go I.”</p>
<p>mommusic-which brings us back full circle to the issue at hand- not believing that education is going to get you ahead in life…the information IS there whether it is in a ghetto or the mountains and it doesn’t have to come from the internet. The social services in place and the schools have and give out this information ALL THE TIME. It even happens in rich white schools where some parents just don’t give a rip and their kids don’t care either.</p>
<p>There have been huge budget cuts in head start & other safety net programs. Less than half the children who qualify for those programs are served in some areas.</p>
<p>The income required to qualify is also very low. Families of four with income of $43,000 won’t qualify for even reduced lunch.</p>
<p>I have never seen more uninformed comments in my life than some of the ones here. Saying that there are no poor in the US is so ludicrous that it borders on lunacy. And where in the world do you see ORM in Med School? The Med School I see firsthand has hardly any URM, let alone ORM. </p>
<p>How many of you have ever spent time in a poor inner-city school? There are exceptions of course, but in general the kids I see in some of these classes don’t stand a chance. The teachers have their hands full dealing with issues that some of you can’t even imagine, and can barely teach the few kids that want to learn.</p>
<p>I completely agree that sweeping generalizations about “lazy poor people on welfare” really don’t move the discussion forward. I admit it strikes me personally, as our family was on food stamps for a few years while my divorced mom got her masters and PhD. Whatever those food stamps cost society I believe has been paid back to society many times over with the vastly higher salary she has been able to earn since then. Hell she’s in her mid 70’s and still working, paying taxes on that PhD-generated income.</p>
<p>That said…</p>
<p>Can public schools do everything to ensure that poor kids get an education that will enable them to left themselves out of poverty? No, it seems they can’t. </p>
<p>Should they try? How hard?</p>
<p>There’s a good question.</p>
<p>One part of the article struck me: “We have moved from a society in the 1950s and 1960s, in which race was more consequential than family income, to one today in which family income appears more determinative of educational success than race”. It suggests to me that maybe government can influence this stuff for the better. I’d guess that part of the reason the racial gap has narrowed since the 50s-60s is that in that time schools were desegregated, for the most part. By law.</p>
<p>But they are still *often *segregated by class/income level.</p>
<p>Thank you so much, TV4caster and ohiobassmom, for weighing in with your perspectives.</p>
<p>[Welcome</a> to Job Corps](<a href=“http://www.jobcorps.gov/home.aspx]Welcome”>http://www.jobcorps.gov/home.aspx)</p>
<p>This is for those wanting to assist/volunteer at the high school level. This provides an alternative for college for high school students on the lower end of the income scale.</p>
<p>It is a federally funded program located in every state. The student once eligible does NOT have to attend in-state but can attend programs in any state. </p>
<p>[Job</a> Corps: Center Locations](<a href=“http://www.jobcorps.gov/centers.aspx]Job”>http://www.jobcorps.gov/centers.aspx)</p>
<p>The student can complete their GED and then continue with their specific program. Huge variety in program choices from fire fighters to chefs to healthcare to welding to business. Upon completion can be apprenticed or be placed into an advanced program.</p>
<p>After completion jobs are located and funded pro-rated by the federal government for the first year. While in the program room and board are covered, they receive pay during their working hours, free health care, free dental and free vision and glasses.</p>
<p>Transportation to and from the program are paid for by Jobs Corps and 2 trips per year back to their homes are also covered, for 6 weeks in the summer and 2 weeks at Christmas.</p>
<p>Some of the programs offer dual enrollment from local community colleges so upon graduation from Jobs Corps they also receive an associates degree, all covered by their program. </p>
<p>I think you have to be at least 16 and I know there is an upper age limit but do not know what it is.</p>
<p>This provides a great opportunity for those that need to get out of an unhealthy environment, complete high school and have skills/education to provide for themselves.</p>
<p>As far as fee waivers for college applications…
NACAC
<a href=“http://www.nacacnet.org/studentinfo/feewaiver/Documents/ApplicationFeeWaiver.pdf[/url]”>http://www.nacacnet.org/studentinfo/feewaiver/Documents/ApplicationFeeWaiver.pdf</a>
[NCF</a> Fee Waiver Program](<a href=“http://www.nacacnet.org/EventsTraining/CollegeFairs/Exhibitor/NCFEXH/Pages/FeeWaiver.aspx]NCF”>http://www.nacacnet.org/EventsTraining/CollegeFairs/Exhibitor/NCFEXH/Pages/FeeWaiver.aspx)</p>
<p>SAT fee waivers</p>
<p>Venture Scholar school members providing fee waivers
[Ventures</a> Scholars Program | Institutions Offering Application Fee Waivers](<a href=“http://www.venturescholar.org/hs/feewaivers.html]Ventures”>http://www.venturescholar.org/hs/feewaivers.html)</p>
<p>CSS Profile also provide fee waivers for completing the Profile (I think 6 schools)</p>
<p>Hope this helps all those wanting to volunteer. It really can make a difference, especially if you start with 9th graders and steer them towards summer programs as well.</p>
<p>Kat</p>
<p>emeraldkity4–in many parts of the country a family of 4 making $43,000 is making a VERY good living. In our old town you could easily buy a NICE house, have a couple cars, join a golf club on that salary. Here, not so much, a family of 4 making $45,000 qualifies for food stamps. So define “poor”. As for the budget cuts, that is ONE program to help very young children. These kids still go to school every day and people there know their situation. It is impossible NOT to know what is out there and if you don’t know, one simple question is all it takes, what can I do to get out of poverty…</p>
<p>Ohiomom–that was NEVER said and you know it. The point was made about people never trying to get off welfare…obviously someone studying for a PhD is not who we were talking about. The system is designed to do exactly what it did for your family and EVERYONE in that situation should take advantage of that, however, it is NOT meant to be a way of life and THAT is the point.</p>
<p>I always find it very interesting the varying ways that educated adults approach the issue of educational inequality, and we can see that the responses here are certainly running the gamut. I will make my standpoint clear, which is that I have through my own experiences learned firsthand how very simplistic and unrealistic it is to say that our success in life comes simply down to our choices. Circumstance undoubtedly plays a huge role and to dismiss those who are struggling in our society as being simply unmotivated is sad. </p>
<p>First, I will lend my own story. I suppose you could call me one of those success cases. I come a working-class family that has at times received food stamps and food from pantries, and my mother was a high school dropout and teenage mother of two (I came later). Yet, as some would say through my own grit and determination, I made it beyond my circumstances and I am graduating from undergrad in May, hopefully to then attend graduate school. </p>
<p>But here, you’re missing a lot of the picture. My mom was a high school dropout, but she is also very intelligent and loves to read. My grandmother worked for years in a publication company and I grew up with literally hundreds of books in my house, including a range of age-appropriate material. My brother and I were frequently read to at night. My parents always encouraged us in our educational pursuits, scheduled parent-teacher conferences around their work schedules, and advocated for us when things went wrong at school. To put it simply, I was poor, but I had parents who gave a crap and gave us the tools that we needed to be successful. </p>
<p>Now I will give you the example of a good friend of mine. We’ll call her Sarah. Sarah was born in the same year as I was, her parents married shortly thereafter, and her father got a really good job middle-class job working for a software/computer company. Nonetheless, they had problems which came to a head when her father became addicted to crack. He lost his job, constantly sold their possessions, and things became really tough even with her mother working constantly to try to hold the family together. With all of the issues going on at home, she developed some behavior issues in school and struggled to maintain the same grades, while her brother spiraled out of control. She did okay in high school doing her best in English, history, and excelling in the arts, though she had a lot of trouble with math in spite of getting extra help. </p>
<p>Even then, the counselors did their best to encourage her to go to college, and a couple years after she graduated she did just that for a semester or so, until her father couldn’t be bothered to give her the information she needed to fill out the next year’s FAFSA, and then she couldn’t go back. I’d also like to point out here that I tried to take advantage of services in my school to get help with filing for financial aid, but there really were none. My counselors were not knowledgeable, and the so-called FAFSA expert who was supposed to help could do nothing when I told her that my mother had not and did not intend to file her taxes. What I ended up having to do was have my brother help me do a rough tax return so that I could get the numbers to fill in the FAFSA online. If I hadn’t had my brother, what would I have done? </p>
<p>So back to my friend. At the same age as me, Sarah is currently working at a grocery chain as a cake decorator (putting some of those artistic skills to good use) making okay money but really not enough to get by on. Even though she has the intelligence to succeed in college courses (which she has done), due to incredible struggles at home and a lack of helpful resources that some say that you can’t HELP but know about, is not in the same place that I am due to different circumstances. Sure, there were times when she didn’t work as hard as I did, I’ll be honest. But how was she supposed to get home from getting extra help when the late buses weren’t running and she didn’t have anybody to pick her up? How was she supposed to focus when she was wondering if all of her things would be gone when she got home (again), or if they had electricity, or food? You could make the argument that it still comes down to choice and determination, but I highly doubt most of your own children would have succeeded in the same circumstances. There is a world of difference between coming home to a family that encourages you to succeed and cares about your outcome and coming home to an environment that is hostile, dangerous, or neglectful. To take two people of identical ability and intelligence, put them in these two circumstances, and expect them to have the same outcome is simply fantasy. </p>
<p>And that’s not even touching on the educational deficits that are clear between people of different social classes in school that begin in kindergarten and continue to expand year to year…</p>
<p>Some people have no desire to go to college, because they hate reading and taking tests and are perfectly happy to spend their lives cleaning pools and grooming golf courses (which doesn’t surprise me - sounds good!). We should leave them alone and not make them feel guilty, because we need people like that in our society.</p>
<p>I was enrolled in Job corps, for the summer after my father died. ( no transportation or other benefits were provided however) It was a great program, my boss was a mentor to me & it gave me skills that motivated me to get my GED.</p>
<p>However, I also remember thinking it was too bad that support for our family hadn’t been available * before* my dad died, it might have meant a different outcome.</p>
<p>“how many kids are in college because they were fortunate to have parents that nagged them about homework or turning in college apps on time?”</p>
<p>Pretty much 100% of the kids in college had parents or some other adult nagging/teaching them to get on and stay on the right track. If you’ve got a kid who doesn’t need it any more at 16, then that’s because some adult did a fantastic job early on. Heaven knows they all need it when they’re 4! Kids are learning from adults starting day one, minute one. No one is born with a set of values, work ethic, goals, etc…good environments teach those things actively and passively every day. You don’t know whether a kid is “college material” or not if no one’s ever taught him any skills or priorities. The material might be first rate.</p>
<p>“It is impossible NOT to know what is out there and if you don’t know, one simple question is all it takes, what can I do to get out of poverty…”</p>
<p>I guess there’s nothing to talk about, then. The parents didn’t ask, so we can let the kids rot.</p>
<p>I grew up in a poor rural community. About a third of my high school class went to college, another third took low paying jobs or joined the military, the other third was made up of assorted stoners and alcoholics. Most of these have done jail time or have died. The community is even poorer now.</p>
<p>Most social programs, messages sent home to parents, etc, etc did not and still do not overcome…
*you go home after school and one of your parents beats the crap out of you
- your parents are already at the Amvets; drunk at 4pm
- your parents can barely read and write
- you are called a worthless idiot daily by your parents even though you get B’s and A’s </p>
<p>Absweetmaria is correct…“That is a long, drawn-out process. If a kid gets to high school without a belief in the value of education that has been drilled into her from the day she was born, no amount of announcements and info sessions are going to help!” Most of the kids from my hometown don’t stand a chance.</p>
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<p>I paraphrased: "the entitlement attitude common in the poor population"to “lazy poor people on welfare”. I apologize if they seem to be substantially different statements. I still think the first phrase is a generalization and doesn’t move the discussion forward in a meaningful way because I do not think an entitlement attitude is common in poor people. That has not been my own experience in the inner city public schools I attended and later student taught in, or in the inner city where I grew up. And it certainly wasn’t what I saw with my mom, who was certainly poor. And my dad, for that matter, he was a minister.</p>
<p>Anyhow I know my mom will be seen as different from “those people” in this context and indeed she is - she was herself raised by solidly middle class parents (union job and benefits) and went to college after high school. She just left college early to support my dad while HE got his advanced degree so when they split she was left holding the bag, so to speak. Fortunately the social safety net was there for her so she could get the education to get us out of that situation. Also fortunate that she was raised with the family resources to do well in high school and college and go on to finish later on.</p>
<p>hyperJulie–congratulations to you on your upcoming graduation but the one sentence that sticks out in your story is that your parents encouraged you in your educational pursuits—that is the missing link and that is what we are talking about here. Circumstances aside, if a family cares that their children get an education it makes ALL the difference in the world. </p>
<p>I have a cousin, in today’s world she would have been labeled high functioning autistic, back then she was just called “slow”. Her parents were both alcoholics, spending little time with their children and not really caring where they were or what they did. The oldest girl in that family lived with our family-got an education, graduated top in her class in high school and college and now has a PhD. This other sister saw that and took it upon herself to make sure the boys she had when she was 16 and 18 didn’t end up like she did, living in low income housing and hoping the mice didn’t eat breakfast for the next day. She was not able to help them much, but found people that could. She and her husband were very dedicated to getting these boys OFF welfare, like they were. These boys are now both MD’s, one is a cardiologist and the other is a pediatrician. The third sister in this family had 4 kids, all from different fathers, spent more time doing drugs than reading books to her kids. All 4 of these kids have continued this cycle…it is about choices and it starts with one question, how do I do better?</p>
<p>Somewhere along the way for all of us, someone stood up and said I want more for my children…</p>