<p>I believe that line quoted above (the crack about the midwest bubble) was directed to PG</p>
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<p>Well, and since I live here in the US, I have the great freedom to be able to look down on that and be decidedly unimpressed with the morals / values / norms of such societies. Sucks to be them, I suppose. Sucks even more that they’re still so desperate for that validation even when they already HAVE (by most people’s standards) a great amount of wealth. You know, when you have that kind of wealth, you pretty much CAN tell other people to go take a hike as they don’t need to “approve of” or “be impressed” by where your kids go to school. Too bad they have no sense of self outside of what-other-people-might-think-of-me.</p>
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<p>I am AWARE of it, cobrat. I am UNIMPRESSED by it and don’t see why I have to show any level of admiration or support for it.</p>
<p>I’m also aware that women in Saudi Arabia can’t vote or drive cars and that’s cultural too, having traveled there and worn a burka – that doesn’t mean I have to be impressed by it. I’m not afraid to say that certain aspects of many cultures are unimpressive. The Jersey Shore / Snooki culture in the US is unimpressive. So is the “Go to Harvard or don’t bother” attitude of many East Asian cultures. Neither one are anything to write home about, and I don’t see why I need to pretend that they are.</p>
<p>^ ^</p>
<p>PG,</p>
<p>Unlike in the US, bragging about/excessively showing off one’s wealth is considered a sign one “was raised in a barn” per your words and has no propriety and class among many Chinese/East Asian elite…especially the old-school folks. The ones who do are regarded by them in the same ways many Americans/Jersey folks are aghast at Snooki and the Jersey Shore show. </p>
<p>On the other hand, demonstrating high academic achievement and using one’s intellect…especially in the spirit of public service has long been highly prized in Chinese/Confucian oriented societies. </p>
<p>What the Chows are doing is the modern equivalent of what wealthy merchants during the Imperial Chinese era(Mostly late Ming - Qing dynasties) who didn’t have what it takes/didn’t want to bother with preparing/passing Imperial Civil Service Exams to gain entry into the respectable elite. </p>
<p>Buying an “honorary degree” which provided scraps of that “scholar-gentry” respectability…but actual scholar-gentry elite who actually earned their degrees disdained as “a remedial degree for those with more money than intellectual acumen/sense”. Moreover, unless there’s a severe shortage of degree holders and a national disaster*…such a degree isn’t going to command the level of respect an actual earned degree would among those who mattered.</p>
<ul>
<li>i.e. The Taiping Rebellion in the mid-19th century which ravaged much of China and almost toppled the last dynasty decades before their ultimate collapse.<br></li>
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<p>What that’s true, that’s irrelevant in the context of the OP’s story.</p>
<p>^^^How are all of these Chinese stories have to to do with OP or this thread? </p>
<p>Chows were no different than many wealthy Americans or Chinese. They could afford it and they thought they would just buy it. They didn’t get what they wanted, so they are suing - I think that’s very American. Pure and simple.</p>
<p>What’s all that nonsense about Confucius way, merchants vs scholars…sheesh.</p>
<p>Cbreeze, aren’t you tired of tracking me to express your disapproval of my posts every time there is a discussion that does not place CERTAIN Asians in a positive light.</p>
<p>You are correct that I tend to find sources to support my arguments. I prefer that over the alternative to rely on ad hominems and personal attacks. There is a sure way to make my arguments look foolish, namely find evidence that directly contradicts me and the facts I used to support my opinion.</p>
<p>As I wrote in an earlier reply, I DO NOT create the news nor distort the stories. If you find educated opinions supported by facts offensive, so be it. I am entitled to my opinion, and so do you. If you think that the stories of endemic cheating in Asia are false and only spread by biased observers, so be it. </p>
<p>For the record, indicting cheaters only reflects on the cheaters, not on an entire population. I thought that precise facts make that distinction clear. In this case, Chow is Chow, and does not represent all rich dentists or jewelers in Asia.</p>
<p>oldfort,</p>
<p>What makes the Chows stand out from wealthy Americans who try to buy their way in, is that the Chows claim that they didn’t know how the college admissions process worked, which is total BS.</p>
<p>This family had their boys in U.S. college preparatory boarding schools, and at least one of the boys attended a U.S. junior boarding school before the high school boarding school. These parents were probably better informed about the U.S. college admissions process than most U.S. parents.</p>
<p>GMTplus7 - agreed. I was just saying that their behavior was not very different than many wealthy Americans, hence I didn’t know why we needed a Chinese culture lesson. I was not commenting on their reason for the lawsuit.</p>
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<p>But this is where you continue to overstate the importance of what-others-think. Few people in the US are “aghast” at Snooki / Jersey Shore. They think it’s tacky; ok, fine, but then they move on with their day, figuring that their tackiness will ultimately catch up with them. For someone who keeps telling me to step out of upper-middle-class suburbia, I don’t think you have fully internalized the concept of live-and-let-live where most people simply don’t spend their time being “aghast” at other people’s life choices. </p>
<p>Whether it’s certain educated folks in China being aghast at the Chows, or people at Stuyvesant aghast at someone who would choose Reed over HYP, or whatever – people just don’t care as much about other people as you seem to think they do.</p>
<p>I think more is to be gained by empathizing with each other than calling each other names. Even a middle class life style is a luxury to most of the world.</p>
<p>I have a PhD ad earn a normal salary for my job in academia. I don’t notice this buying me respect in American society, though that is not why I did it, of course. I am always being told my writing is too erudite for current publishing standards.</p>
<p>My kids both attended excellent schools and this makes both of them overqualified for most of the jobs that are hiring so they are in grad school.</p>
<p>Cultures do differ. And here in the East Coast Harvard is still the gold standard, as it apparently is in other parts of the world.</p>
<p>It makes no sense to argue about whether or not it should be this way.</p>
<p>Neither party in this case comes off scott free, though the Chows appear to be less manipulative, even if they are high handed.</p>
<p>If there was fraud and embezzlement and their money was “appropriated” and not invested, I have sympathy with their attempt to recover the money. It is certainly not true that Harvard requires a Caucasian middleman to handle development funds. Of course I have no way of knowing if this allegation is true. If they are suing because their kids weren’t accepted at Harvard, that’s a different story. Then my sympathy wanes.</p>
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<p>Xiggi, Do you how many posts you have in this thread? It’s bordering on obsessive.
Wow, I didn’t know you are aware that you write so many anti-Asian posts that makes you think I should be tired just tracking you.</p>
<p>Best item on the invoice:</p>
<p>“The Coop - Jane <a href=“for%20the%20ethics%20textbook”>b</a>** - $67.15”</p>
<p>What a waste of $67.15.</p>
<p>I hope Harvard reacts / repeals Chow’s degree, as this is a thousand times worse than the freshman cheating scandal.</p>
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<p>I just noticed something, both xiggi and cbreeze came on CC at the same time/month long ago. They might be friends off CC. I enjoy good arguments with support. I have no idea if xiggi is or isn’t Asian himself.</p>
<p>Stereotyping is not good for anyone. We cannot say certain people have certain kind of genetic diseases or certain people are not as smart as another group. We are individuals, at least in the US.</p>
<p>Lake,
lots of people have Aug 2004 as their registration date as thats when CC opened the “new” board . Some of us holdouts stayed on the old, “classic” board til October, when you could no longer post on the old board. Thats why I have an Oct 2004 registration date. I had no choice but to migrate to the new board. If you want to see the old board, look at the bottom of the page and click on “college Discussion Classic”. Some of it is still there and readable.</p>
<p>*** OH, and for the record, there ARE certain genetic issues that run in certain ethnic groups.
Tay-Sachs is one example.</p>
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<p>A cursory examination of Chinese imperial history…especially the Confucian social order, the role the imperial civil service exam played in propagating its elite, and some reasons why merchants/businesspeople were looked upon so suspiciously that they were officially at the very bottom of that social order would reveal what I wrote is certainly not nonsense. </p>
<p>One way many Chinese/East Asian businesspeople have tried to overcome this cultural skepticism toward businesspeople is to embrace Confucian elite values and reappropriate them with the cooperation of the old-school elites to show their activities aren’t only for self-enrichment/profit, but also to facilitate a greater contribution to society as a whole. </p>
<p>Part of that is also to avoid materialistic self-aggrandizing attitudes such as crassly justifying their superiority on the basis of their wealth or try to abuse it for corrupt purposes…especially in areas such as education. Incidentally, this has been used by some old scholar-gentry elite families I’ve encountered…including one side of my family to determine if someone was “raised in a barn” or not. </p>
<p>In short, everything the Chows are doing is the exact opposite of those efforts and has made wealthy Hong Kong businesspeople the laughingstock of the Sinosphere/world. Worse, this incident plays into the centuries old disdainful Confucian stereotype of businesspeople being unprincipled corrupt opportunistic twits.</p>
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<p>You may want to send that memo to New Jersey politicians…including the governor, many New Jersey residents who are expressing outrage publicly, some Italian-American organizations, my suburban NJ relatives’ neighbors, etc. </p>
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<p>Actually, Stuy kids who chose Reed over HYP tended to be highly respected by even the jerky contingent among the 25% as it was regarded on par with SWA when I was there. </p>
<p>Part of the reason for that respect, however, is the widespread perception that such students were masochists for choosing a school perceived to have a far greater academic workload in both quantity and rigor. Similar to how we regarded classmates who went off to Swat, MIT, Caltech, CMU(STEM), Cornell, UChicago, or other such “heavy workload schools”. </p>
<p>Braver and heartier souls than most. :D</p>
<p>jym, thanks for pointing to the old board. The new CC is good enough to enjoy. As for the two being friends, that’s just kidding. Regarding stereotyping, certain statement tends to hurt people as a group, imo.</p>
<p>Lake,
The rampant testing and application cheating amongst some asian countries is not stereotyping. Unfortunately its well documented. [Asian</a> Foreign Students Tops At… Application Cheating | AsianWeek](<a href=“http://www.asianweek.com/2012/01/09/asian-foreign-students-tops-at-application-cheating/]Asian”>http://www.asianweek.com/2012/01/09/asian-foreign-students-tops-at-application-cheating/) </p>
<p>[Asians</a> cheat like mad on US college apps | GlobalPost](<a href=“http://www.globalpost.com/dispatch/news/regions/asia-pacific/thailand/120103/US-college-application-fraud-asia-elite-economy-china]Asians”>http://www.globalpost.com/dispatch/news/regions/asia-pacific/thailand/120103/US-college-application-fraud-asia-elite-economy-china)</p>
<p>[Asian</a> Students Pressured to Cheat on US College Applications | Education News](<a href=“http://www.educationnews.org/international-uk/asian-students-pressured-to-cheat-on-us-college-applications/]Asian”>http://www.educationnews.org/international-uk/asian-students-pressured-to-cheat-on-us-college-applications/)</p>
<p><a href=“National : News : The Hankyoreh”>National : News : The Hankyoreh;
<p><a href=“The China Conundrum - The New York Times”>The China Conundrum - The New York Times;
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<p>Well, why don’t we find out? Here’s the answer…</p>
<p>jym626 24
cobrat 24
Pizzagirl 17
Sue22 16
oldfort 11
Hunt 8
Consolation 8
cbreeze 7
mini 7
huntsm1 6
xiggi 6</p>
<p>So, I have six posts, including answering to your little tantrum? How many do you have? And in how many posts are there any comments about Asians? As far I know, I answered only to a silly statement made by Cobrat about how cheating is perceived in China and HK, by posting an excerpt of an article that … had been discussed at length here on CC as it was a NY Times article. </p>
<p>The rest? Common cents, gelato, the say what comment in answer to the bubble insult hurled at PG.</p>
<p>Now, review your own post here. How many are questioning the integrity of others by asking for sources or stats? Seriously.</p>
<p>This is nuts.</p>
<p>Oh man, I top the list on this thread? How’d I do that???</p>
<p>^^^
I stand in awe of your covert spamming skills! Top post count without really getting involved in a lengthy one-on-one argument! I salute you.</p>
<p>On the other fora I frequent, we honor the prolific. We would be erecting a monument in your honor.</p>
<p>Note: The word “fora” thrown in there for xiggi.</p>
<p>;)</p>