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<p>As a matter of fact, in the Confucian culture, teachers had been placed on the same pedestal with the deities for thousands of years. On the altars of the old family homes and village shrines, there could be tablets and statues of various gods, like the kitchen god, the money god, the goddess of child birth, etc; but on every altar, the largest and most prominently displayed tablet was always the one that honored “Heaven, Earth, the Emperor, Parents/Ancestors, and TEACHER”.</p>
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<p>I’m not saying the European/Asian emphasis on reserving college education for the best through cutthroat competitive entry examinations and tracking from middle school onwards is necessarily all perfect. </p>
<p>Instead, I’m saying what the Chow’s did reveals some serious shortcomings in the US system…money plays too much of a role in admissions and whether someone is able to attend/graduate without onerous debt…even if it’s a public institution. </p>
<p>Moreover, standards at many US colleges…especially in the lower-tiers are such that a college-degree from such institutions is not necessarily a guarantee its holder has basic mathematical or written communication skills necessary for the workplace/life. </p>
<p>This very issue is one reason one former financial firm I worked for would not hire undergrad business majors from colleges outside of the very top tier like NYU-Stern, Wharton, UVA-McIntire, etc. </p>
<p>It’s also a reason why many NYC area employers were reportedly and may still be leery about hiring post-1969 CCNY/CUNY graduates during the late '70s till the '90s.</p>
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<p>Are you sure the examinations are cutthroat in … Europe? A levels? The Matura? The Bac? How about the systems that only require a high school diploma to enroll at any university, except a medical or arts school? </p>
<p>It is easy to be confused by the occasional stories about the Grandes Ecoles, but the reality is than transitioning from high school to a local university in Europe does make many students lose much sleep.</p>
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<p>I know of some French public universities(not grand ecoles) which allow anyone in with a diploma/bac, but has year-end exams to weed out 50%+ of students from continuing on to the following year every year until a tiny few make it to graduation. </p>
<p>And the Matura, Bac, Gymnasium, etc are often pursued by students who were survivors of an effective weedout process at the end of middle school when teachers/admins determine which track a middle-school graduate would continue on. </p>
<p>The ones who were weeded out ended up going to various grades of vo-tech institutes, started apprenticeships, or sometimes even started working whatever jobs were available for a middle-school graduate.</p>
<p>I am afraid you are overstating the impact of what you call an effective weeding out of students.</p>
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<p>Superficially, this looks very inefficient, especially if you met the threshold a 2-3 times and then got the heave-ho.</p>
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<p>I don’t know. Encountered many European and Asian students from mostly well-off families who were sent here to the states for high school and college because they’d otherwise be shut out of gaining a university education. </p>
<p>One extreme case was of an older Japanese student who as a result of one schoolyard fight was barred from further public education for being “too violent”, disowned by his family, and ended up working several years in various odd/unskilled jobs before a chance meeting with a wealthy benefactor sent him to the US to allow him to finish his education up to the undergrad level. He himself said if he wasn’t given this second chance, he’d still be working those odd/unskilled factory jobs…not a few days from walking at his college graduation. </p>
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<p>It’s their way of providing effective open admissions, provide what we’d consider extremely low-cost/free education in a sustainable manner, and ensure every graduate is educated to a high standard. </p>
<p>It’s an extreme version of how I heard some Midwest flagships handled allowing open-admissions for in-state residents and the flood which resulted during the '50s and early '60s. </p>
<p>Only difference was the system-wide weedout combined with lack of preparedness of many incoming in-staters meant the weedout process was only done within the first two years.</p>
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<p>I am sure if your “I don’t know” is an admission or a rhetorical device. For what it is worth, a good start might be to separate your continents as there are extremely few parallels that could relate to this discussion. In this case, I have no reason to doubt that many of the anecdotes about the selectivity of Asian top universities are true, and that is why I see no parallels in Europe.</p>
<p>I cannot comment on the objectivity of your “encounters” with Europeans, but I am afraid that you were either misled or you misunderstood. Simply stated, it would take an extreme combination of poor efforts or lack of interest to be shut out of a college education in Europe, especially for a student with means. </p>
<p>My family has deep roots in Western Europe and your account would be at the antipodes of the experiences of my European cousins. Perhaps your experiences are dating back to several generations, but the access to universities in Europe is hardly as hard or selective as you make it sound. </p>
<p>Perhaps, you could provide a few details of the type of schools where this uber-selection works as you describe.</p>
<p>I just got back from having dinner with D2 (parents weekend). I am getting popcorn.</p>
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<p>What !!! You are challenging his integrity?</p>
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<p>I just think Cobrat is a very popular guy because he knows so many people. It doesn’t matter what we are talking about, he always has a cousin or friend with some sort of experience to back up his point of view.</p>
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So does Xiggi. He has a very good friend named google.</p>
<p>My cousin doesn’t think that the current discussion about Asian and European universities has very much to do with the subject of this thread and he wishes that more people would chime in on the original topic.</p>
<p>Cbreeze, your comments have been out of bounds for a while now. You are only embarrassing yourself. Do you have something constructive to add to this discussion? </p>
<p>As far as the cousins part, I rarely bring such experience in the public discussions. In this case, there is a direct relevance as they went through the college transition from high school at the same time as I did. No hearsay. No googling needed.</p>
<p>Last post was cut off in editing.</p>
<p>Needed to add that the cousins part was an attempt to find common grounds in a continuing dialogue with Cobrat. </p>
<p>A few will understand what I mean.</p>
<p>Xiggi-- I was just trying to make a dumb joke that in retrospect fell flat. My grandmother would be appalled by my snarky tone. [winky face]. Sorry 'bout that.</p>
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<p>Is there any topic discussed on CC where you haven’t personally claimed to have “encountered” a lot of people who did just that very thing and / or know what the majority of people “regard” as the right thing to do in those circumstances?</p>
<p>Xiggi, notice that I was merely quoting you. Those were your words.If you don’t wish to be embarrassed, don’t write them.</p>
<p>No, Cbreeze, whatis embarrassing is a participation that is confined to following another poster for the sole purpose of dissecting posts, taking words out of context, and relying to ad hominems.</p>
<p>Read posts #271 and #277. The difference is the target.
My quotes were taken from your very short and succinct posts in whole sentences, no dissecting words or taken out of context was necessary.
Again, if you find your own words to be offensive or embarrassing, I can’t help you.</p>