EFC $5-6k - Ivies giving better aid than LACs or the good NMF pkgs?

Paying for College
1

Hi, all,

I’ve been running NPCs on some of our target schools, and I’m coming up with weird numbers. Our EFC on FAFSA estimators is between $5,000 and $6,000 on an AGI of approx 60 - 65k. (varies by a few k depending on the year, sometimes we’re Pell-eligible and sometimes not). I’ve been running the NPCs multiple times because I want to see the potential impact of a raise, of going back to DH’s employer healthcare (before tax prems = lower AGI), etc.

I’m finding that Ivies are spitting out really low numbers for us, lower in many cases than the LACs and some of the best NMF packages.

Examples:

Stanford = $4000, of which $2,900 is work study and $1,100 is the student’s summer job (so nothing from us)
Princeton = $2,900 from us, $1,100 student summer work and $2,900 in work study
Rice = $7,078 from us, $2,500 in work study
Pomona = $7,922 from us, $2,000 in work study
Carleton = $11,560 (includes a $4,500 loan grumble)

Local UC = $15,566 (We’re Blue & Gold eligible, so this is R&B, parking, books, etc.)

I feel like I’m missing something here, but I’m not sure what it is. We haven’t been looking at Ivies (I ran the numbers on a lark). We’ve been looking at meets-full-need privates and the big NMF packages.

If the NPCs are accurate, then Stanford and Princeton (if he gets in) are cheaper than the the LACs, and cheaper than the Bama NMF* package?

How accurate are the NPCs? If that’s true about Stanford, then I guess we’ll look at Stanford. (Not sure about Princeton and the other Ivies.)

*On the plus side, the NMF offers are guaranteed; we won’t need to worry about financial aid changes if we get a raise or some other windfall.

Takeaway: So I guess a family with a high stats kid in our income range should consider Ivies?

2

HYPS generally give the most generous need-based aid.

3

If you don’t have exotic taxes (like owning a business or having a non-custodial parent) then the NPCs should be accurate. Yes, some of the Ivies are exceptionally generous. They are also the most difficult to get into (due to their generosity).

4

In your income range the ivies give generous aid.

Some NMF packages are also very generous. Full ride at U Ky, UA gives free housing first year and full tuition and stipend.

So if you want to apply to some ivies make sure to keep some guaranteed merit schools on the list as well.

Yes you are correct in that if your financial situation changes your need based aid will also change.

If the merit is not need based it should not change.

Also make sure you consider the net price calculator estimates with the fact in mind that the work study money is not available up front, it is earned during the semesters.

5

Is your son in the 10th grade? If so, just make possible lists now, but realize things may change based on actual scores, etc.

Also…CSS Profile schools may look at your financials differently.

6

The Ivies generally have the biggest endowments, and some of them use them to give very good FA. You certainly can’t count on Ivy admission, though, no matter how good his stats are.

7

Yes, some of those schools have huge endowments, so they can give very generous financial aid to students they admit from lower to middle income families. However, most of them admit about half of their students from upper income families who do not get financial aid (probably $250,000+ income). The super-selectivity at many of the good-financial-aid schools like HYPS means that no one can really count on admission, since it probably takes the following to get admitted:

  • Top end GPA and class rank in a rigorous high school schedule.
  • Top end test scores.
  • National level achievement in extracurriculars.
  • Outstanding essays.
  • Outstanding recommendations (which means that there is the uncontrollable and often unknown variable in that one is dependent on the quality of recommendation writing by counselor and teacher).
  • Good interview, if used.
  • No "defects".

UC net price calculators typically show a net price of FAFSA EFC plus an $8,000 to $11,000 self-help (student contribution) of federal direct loan (up to $5,500) and work study. The amount of self-help varies by campus.

8

NPC’s for Amherst College and Northwestern were very accurate for us. We had a relatively simple tax situation, though, with government employee defined benefit pensions and no SS withholding being the only complications. Since the FA at Amherst and NW was need based, however, outside scholarships would have reduced the need component and not reduced our overall cost.

Some of the public schools with generous merit-based FA packages will come up with even more FA if it will sway your decision. Michigan State’s listed scholarships would have left us with about $10,000 out-of-pocket, but a short email to the admissions people trying to recruit my son (and a copy of his FA letter from Northwestern) brought that cost down to less than zero - he was able to keep his National Merit Scholarship and a couple of outside scholarships to pay for books, buy a laptop, and bank the rest.

I guess what I am saying is: don’t be afraid to ask for more. Northwestern politely told us that they couldn’t offer anything else, but the conversation was short and painless.

9

Thanks, everyone!

Re: S in 10th grade: Agreed, lots of things could change - his interests could change, his GPA might not hold, he might not test as well as we think, etc, so yep, just a list, and a loose one at that.

Re: miniscule chance of admission - Also agreed. I hadn’t been considering Ivies up until now because the app fee is more akin to a lottery ticket and I didn’t want to waste our application money.

Re: some publics matching other offers - Interesting! Thank you. :slight_smile: Are you in-state at MSU? I’m an original Michigander, but we’re in Cali now. MSU is one of our “maybe” schools since some of their scholarships waive OOS tuition.

As always, the good folks at CC have been very helpful.

10

Actually, both schools would apply outside scholarships against the student self-help part (loans and/or work study) first, which would reduce the net price:

https://www.amherst.edu/offices/financialaid/international_students/faq
http://undergradaid.northwestern.edu/types-of-aid/scholarships-grants/outside-scholarships.html

11

also, you should be eligible for application fee waivers!

12

There are public universities that give aid to OOS students. UNC and UVA, and UMichigan has stepped up recently as well. However, OOS admission is quite competitive, partly for this reason. And I would expect loans would be part of the package.

13

@DiotimaDM, we live in Ohio - so MSU is out-of-state. If your son has a parent or grandparent who is an alumnus, MSU offers a $3,000 scholarship for OOS students. All of their scholarships stack, so the combined FA package exceeded the COA (less travel, which is negligible for us) by about $2,000.

He got:

In-State tuition plus $3,000 for being invited to the Honors College and another $3500 for study abroad
Room and Board plus $4,000 for being a NMF.
$2,000 for being a NM Scholar (MSU award)
$3,000 for being the grandson of an alumnus
$3,000 additional scholarship money for turning down Northwestern (MSU will match awards from other AAU schools)
$1500 from the CoE.
$1500 in local, outside scholarships
A part-time job as a research assistant that amounts to about $2500/yr. He got his first check before he’d even met the professor.

14

I saw a lot of variation in need-based FA awards among schools that promised to meet need and those that did not The best offer was from an LAC, the second best from a school that doesn’t guarantee to meet need. SO there’s variation within the categories as well. Ivies are very generous but so are some of the most selective LACs, and if a not-meet-need school really wants your kid, they may pull through.

We do have a complex situation with an NCP though, so some variation may be due to how they calculated his expected contribution.

15

@collegemom3717 "also, you should be elige for application fee waivers! "

Wondering what you are basing that on? I didn’t think that would be correct on a 60-65k income barring they have a HUGE family?

16

It is cool that a brand name school can be affordable. The probability they will accept your child … 10-20:1

Build a diverse list and don’t count on any particular school…

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@DiotimaDM At your income level, I’d be shocked if the schools giving 100% of nee-based aid were not the least expensive. Ivies are a lottery for anyone, as you know, but if your son is good enough even to consider them, there are a bunch of top-notch LACs that meet 100% of need and may be the same cost. My daughters do not have the stats for ivies but do fall comfortably at the upper range of accepted students for several 100% need LACs, so that’s where we’ve been concentrating, and that may work for you, too.

Our flagship state school was one of the most expensive when I ran NPCs, but then, who knows about merit aid at this point.

18

@planner03 - my bad, you’re right- I read the post too quickly :frowning: