<p>Husband is a teacher. It is highly unlikely he is being forced to retire. He may feel that it is not feasible to work past 60 because it is not going to increase his pension (which is based on age + years of service). if he has 30 years of service at 60 (there is probably not going to be any appreciable increase in his pension as incentive to stay).</p>
<p>Sybbie, most Americans do not get pension. We work for our salary. That is the incentive. The salary.</p>
<p>Clearly, it’s your opinion that the colleges don’t share, and the financial aid process does not reflect. I guess vetting the whys as to being unemployed and underemployed, as there have been those who are miffed with that as well, is considered too much work and cost, and subject to too much BS that can’t be verified. My brother was retired at age 50. As a veteran, wounded in action at some time, he feels he is entitled to be a SAHD and live on his retirement and what his wife makes. And he has had some sharp remarks about that, as,yes, he could probably find full time employment and save the tax payers half of his retirement check (for a govt job, and he has been offered many as his field of expertise is much needed, he would lose half his pension if he works), but he feels he has put his life on his line for his country, literally, and wants to raise his kids that he was late having. He has little ones and he will be quite old when they become of college age—should he be penalized for that, as well? </p>
<p>There are a lot of opinions on the niches and nuances of any kind of aid. It’s not fair and the fairness pendulum swings both ways. You can make out sometimes, and you pay sometimes. I find it grossly unfair that my very well to do MIL pays no taxes on her Social Security whereas my mother who has nothing has to pay taxes—she is one of the fewer than half of Americans who doe, on her pittance of a government widow’s pension because it just isn’t exempt whereas Social security is. Them’s the rules. </p>
<p>I’m a SAHM and as a result, DH had more pressures to keep a job and earn more than families that had two incomes in the same range as our one. There was a cost to my SAH choice. But our family also benefited and are benefiting from having a full time able person at home taking care of a lot of things that we’ d have to pay for. We rarely eat out or carry in food–I cook most of our meals, and shop carefully. My family seems to think I earn my keep. And I’m now caring for two ailing ocotogenarians who would otherwise be in nursing homes. And I could have had a job maybe even making 6 figures, as I have a math degree from a top 25 national university. Maddening, isn’t it? I’m saving thousands on SAT tutoring, by doing my own, and I daresay, I’m as good as any outside tutor, even in the AP Calc BC. DH makes too much money for us to get financial aid–but if he made less, and we were eligible, you had better belief that I would have gone after EVERY FRIGGIN’ CENT, and I daresay, I 'd be pretty good at getting it too, would you not agree?</p>
<p>Cpt, everyone has every right to go for aid. My comment was I do not see a need to contribute to any college if they do not expect people to help themselves.</p>
<p>Many people work for their pensions. My DH goes over his pension statements very carefully and negotiates it as aggressively as he does his salary. And, ahem, that is his field of expertise, by the way. For public employees, for many years, and my father, is a prime example, they stayed in their jobs that were below market for what else they could get for security, benefits and pension reasons. My father’s government pension for his widow is equal to the max social security amount. Had he worked outside of the government, though he would have a made a bit more, he would not have hit the max amounts each year to generate that kind of a pension. My brother stayed in the military for pension purposes and deliberately aimed for early retirement. He was tired of being on the front lines and a soldier he was for 20 years going into many combat areas, and taking a bullet in one of them in the line of duty. </p>
<p>My very dear friend gave up a job she so loved, because she was offered one in the public sector that paid a bit less, but, oh the pension…she knew her husband when he stopped working was not going to be providing much over the social security, and that pension was going to do it for them. </p>
<p>So, yes, people work for the pension. But there are often all sorts of other things involved too. If I were put to task about being a SAHM, I could come up with a list of reasons, that would shut up most tribunals. Not an area one wants to venture as to why someone does not work. The Jack in that box can be pretty danged nasty coming out.</p>
<p>But no, college financial aid does not take into account why EITHER parent doesn’t not work. And these days finding a job for EITHER can be an issue. I have a friend who scrubs Port a Potties part time and still can’t find much in her area which is a very depressed part of the country, but where she has her house, her family, including some need grandparents. The economy has been such that finding jobs is not easy. Lots of unemployed. It can be said that the early retirees are providing some work for those who can’t find jobs as there aren’t any. I applaud them. That way someone else won’t have a zero EFC due to being a displaced worker since he has no job. It all comes around in one way or the other, you know.</p>
<p>I realize that finding jobs is not easy. But OP says her DH will retire at 60, of his own free will apparently. I am not criticizing him for having pension, but that I am saying that if his reason for retiring is that he will only be getting and salary and not more pension, that is his decision. I am saying that if he makes a choice to retire, I don’t want to subsidize him. Signed, someone who will be working past 60.</p>
<p>Then don’t contribute to colleges at all. They all operate that way. As do most programs that help needy families. They don’t penalize for not working, in fact, that is usually a reason why the family is eligible for the aid. Colleges are not exceptions.</p>
<p>Some private K-12schools, are starting to make it a requirement that the SAHM/D without what they consider good reason, has to show they are looking for a job. Something new to me. But when I looked it up, I found that those schools are finding it not any less of a load on their financial aid pools, as there are very easy ways around that. </p>
<p>I don’t donate to colleges anyways, and the only one on my list to which I would donate is a state school that I feel went above and beyond for my son, and gets little recognition for the way it operates. As far as I am concerned, I 'd strip the private colleges of federal and state monies so fast it would make heads spin if I could do so, and I’ve said so straight out in a lot of my posts. But that’s just my opinion, and those in charge just flap their fingers with thumbs in their ears and blow raspberries at me for my sentiments.</p>
<p>cpt & kayf–i think both of you are on the same side here. Kay is just more indignant about the situation, cpt is more resigned to the inequities. Am I right?</p>
<p>Great discussion, though. I have brought up on many occasions how skewed need-based aid appears to be, and I focused on middle-incomers that work and earn the highest income they can, only to be penalized for earning too much to receive any aid but earning too little to be able to afford many high-priced colleges. </p>
<p>And by pointing that out, I have been lambasted on these forums as being cold, insensitive, greedy, and then some not-very-nice things in addition. Heck, I was just making a statement of figures that really cannot be interpreted any other way.</p>
<p>But a very telling topic on this thread, a theme that has come up time & again since the economic downturn, is that people are actually thinking that a conscious effort to make LESS money does have its advantages. It’s the anti-American dream, but in the world of financial aid it makes a certain amount of sense.</p>
<p>And Kayf, the colleges won’t subsidiize him either, except if his bottom line for financial aid purposes goes under their threshhold, and if they accept his daughter, and if all else meets the need profile, and they aren’t going to take that into consideration one iota as to whether they stick loans into the package, In fact, he’ll get the infor for PLUS just like everyone else. Ain’t no one gonna give him anything because he’s retired early, other than his bottom line income And if he wants a shot at more aid, he can even defter his retirement income living off of loans against his home equity or spending down other assets, which would make his kid possible eligible for more aid. I can come up with a lot of advice in playing that lottery to maximize possible proceeds. All smart planning. But yup, early retire, defer that income till after the college financial aid days, and if that brings the AGI down low enough for a full need guaranteed college to ante up some money, that’s perfectly legitimate. I can give you more ways to maximize aid, than Simon and Garfunkel can to leave your lover, but they all have trade offs and involve risks. You get a zippo net if your kid ends up at a college that doesn’t tend to meet need anyways and could not care less if your EFC was zero or 99999.</p>
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<p>I don’t think that you will be subsidizing him in sending his child to college because he is not retiring until his daughter finishes college.</p>
<p>I have a friend left corporate life (worked 25 years) to take a job with a big pay cut to become a teacher after she became guardian to her brother’s children (after both he and his wife passed) and she wanted to have a life style that was compatible with raising kids. The corporate job was her first job straight out of college, from a pension stand point, she had pretty much maxed out, while she still had almost 20 years until she was old enough to retire. </p>
<p>This prompted her decision to change jobs. As she will have 20 years and a full pension from the DOE before she is old enough to retire and get full retirement benefits.</p>
<p>My DH was incensed this April in that he made a killing during the stock market upturn with his and his mother’s stock accounts. For his mother, it meant she had to pay, not only the gains on the stocks, which he fully expected, but it jacked her income up so that she has to include her social security for tax purposes, and not only that none of her medical expenses are deductible as the 7% is now applied to a much larger income. I just laughed, as I think it is deplorable that my mother has to pay taxes at all on a sub $20K widow’s pension whereas those who get that and more are tax exempt if it’s through social security. Her medication is $60 a month here, so that she breathe, and it’s less than $10 if one buys it in her country and ships it here. So we’ve become drug mules of sorts. There are inequities all over the place. </p>
<p>But, yes, if one want to retire early or otherwise, not seek work, not get an income, one can get some tickets for aid in the aid lotteries. Most of the time, it isn’t worth what you end up getting. Just like those Carnival prizes are usually shams, and you lose out on the sure and real money, but sometimes people do get the brass ring. Would I have gone out and gotten a paying job, if DH made less money? Honestly, college financial aid would not have even entered the equation in that decision, Kayd, and it rarely does for most people. So there are not hordes of people out there plotting as to how to milk that college aid teat for all they can,…until they get right up to the year their kids are applying to college when they’d do just about anything to get some more money, but it’s pretty much too late by then. So there are not millions of kids get all of that money while their SAHMs are rubbing their hands in glee that all of those years of staying at home paid off in more college financial aid. Honest. But I’m sure you’ll find a few.</p>
<p>And Sybbie, so what if the OP’s DH were? That’s my point. If he wants to do so, that’s his business. Anyone who wants to can huff and puff all they want and cut their college donations, —that’s the way it works. Colleges do not go vet out why someone is not working. Not yet, anyways. It’s just the income figure that they primarily use for fin aid calculations.</p>
<p>Cpt, </p>
<p>You may think that the K-12 schools that are asking why a parent isn’t working isn’t worth the effort, but IME, what is happening is it encouraging more SAHMs to work. IMHO, denial of aid is not a great answer, parents working harder is.</p>
<p>People always take the chance to apply ED and are shocked to find that they got exactly what their EFC said or much worse and zero consideration for merit even though merit is available at these schools.</p>
<p>Just look at some of the threads discussing ED going back to late December and you will see a distinct pattern of shock and dismay.</p>
<p>Tex, I agree, kids and parents have to be very very careful with ED if they need finaid. One situation where it can make sense is if parents are very confident of aid (no businesses, no divorced parents, etc) and kid is applying to a school with excellent aid, and the issue is can kid get in.</p>
<p>A dad posted earlier this year on this board. Son was a techie and CMU was his first choice school by far. Really wanted to go there and, the ED boost would make it more likely he would get accepted. Financial aid was an issue. The dad got a preread on fin from CMU and was told that ED would get full need met, and the sample package did have loans, I believe, in it. It was an acceptable package to the family. That they would lose on some better deals in terms of financial and merit awards was a risk that they understood. So for them, ED was an all win situation. Had the pre read resulted in some numbers where it was undoable, then, CMU was likely a no go school regular or early since the ED is guaranteed full need met and the RD would likely gap. But had the price been sort of doable but with great pain, the prospect of a better package with maybe no loans and more merit at other schools might have made it so that playing the field for better options would be the best way to go. </p>
<p>We all know about the small business issue, the NCP and a number of pitfalls that most parents with kids of college aid have absolutely no clue about and have some downright WRONG info and impressions. That’s where ED can become a problem If you go into it with your eyes wide open it’s a whole other thing. But for some families, thinking that this is their best deal and decide to break the bank to make it work, and then find out in the spring when peers come out with better packages, that maybe they locked themselves into a deal too early…well, that happens all of the time. And with families with very low EFCs a difference in $5K a year, is tremendous. Not getting loans is tremendous. Being able to negotiate the student contribution is tremendous. You can’t shop around and compare and deal when you do ED. That’s the problem. It’s a take or leave it deal, and you have to make that decision in a vacuum.</p>
<p>Seriously an family with a zero EFC, who might agree to a packages with a $4k student contribution, and work study in the package, might well have dumped that school or at least negotiated had they gotten an offer for a like school that offered full ride plus let the kid keep the PELL grant as cherry on top of the sundae. We are talking ZERO EFC where a thousand dollars is a heck of a lot of money. And some of these schools don’t present that health insurance requirement up front either, and not all of them will have a mini grant to pay for it for those under a certain income level. Very nasty surprise to find out your kid can’t enroll without proof of health insurance or pay a $2K premium to the school to get it.</p>
<p>Kayf, how much more money the schools are getting is a question up in the air, as there are ways to get around the question or work minimally and still get the aid . I’m not into policies that are resulting in just making people dance. Also, you lose some great moms who bring more into the schools when they get their noses out of joint. I do a lot of work, 13 years worth, have been honored up the whazoo for bringing literally hundreds of thousands fo dollars to a small school that does have a small scholarship fund, and I could not do had I not been a SAHM, nor could I without the help of many SAHMs. So I would veto any such policy vigorously. Much as the working moms help as well, they simply are not as available during the school day when a lot of things are happening. We often have to go through contortions just to include them and the dads, and we do, but it costs us to do so. Now college is a whole other story, but to sift through all of the fin aid stuff for all that business, would cost more than it’s worth, IMO. It’s tough enough getting through the apps, and then to get extra aid info? I don’t think so. Those who don’t have that second income, well, they are making do on less and are in a lottery for aid. Those who do and have enough money to pay have a certainty in some of this. Though the process does take a hunk of income, it does not take it all. Just as it’s better to save and pay some for college, so it is in the vast majority of cases to have the income to be able to afford to pay.</p>
<p>In many ways, having a non working spouse is a boon in that one does tend to live up to income. You buy the best home, school district , a lot of things according to household income. So if non working mom goes back to work during college years, those are funds not earmarked for household things. So it also is an irony that those who spent their money irresponsibly can stop doing so. The families that get the hit are those who invested in long term type things that are difficult to get out of. Families that had hoped to sell the home for college expenses, got a rude surprise in the last several years when the housing market bottomed out. I know some who were so hit. Prices went up, up ,up here, where one neighbor bought a home in 1999, sold it in early 2001 and made a cool $100K after expenses. Had they held onto it a few years more and they could have gotten even more. But then…well these homes are back down to the pre boom prices if one really wants to sell these days, even though there is some movement now in the market. But I digress, what I’m saying, is that sometimes it’s the weirdest things that can work out in financial planning and the raw numbers often don’t take human nature and change into account.</p>
<p>* if he has 30 years of service at 60 (there is probably not going to be any appreciable increase in his pension as incentive to stay).*</p>
<p>I can understand that happens, but his retirement pay is going to be lower than his teaching pay. So, why not WORK longer and put the difference toward college and/or another retirement acct? If work income is $100k, and retirement pay is $50k, then keep working and put a chunk into savings so that there’s more money for retirement.</p>
<p>Unless a person’s retirement pay will be the same as his current pay, I’ve never understood the logic of retiring early because pension amount won’t increase.</p>
<p>m2k, Op’s husband will not retire until D’s 4th year of college. </p>
<p>the biggest challenge that I can see, is that Op’s husband may have to cut back on funding the retirement, while paying for college.</p>
<p>Cpt, apparently what most NYC private schools do with respect to financial aid where student has SAHM is to impute 50,000 of income to family. That makes sense to me. I think colleges should also impute income (although maybe lower amount, reflecting that income potential may not be same outside of NYC). It doesn’t take a lot of time to do that. If family wants to protest, on basis of say, SN child, elderly relative with dementia living in home, they can do that, as they do now. </p>
<p>As to SAHMs helping at schools, so do many part-time WOHMs and flex time WOHMs. I do not want to turn this into a debate of SAHM v WOHM, but it is a personal choice, which results in less family resources being available for college expenses. Same as retiring at 60. </p>
<p>I had thought before this that institutional aid went to families who could not afford college, not those who could, but made decisions that allowed them to get financial aid. This conversation has opened my eyes.</p>
<p>So, kayf, in your scenario, homeschooled students would also not be eligible for institutional aid?</p>