EFC ? what about mortgage, charitable giving etc

<p>DH is self employed.
So we pay both sides of social security, all taxes and 100% of health insurance, everything.</p>

<p>I went to the fafsa estimate calculator,
but it doesn't ask about debt management (mortgage payments),
and there is so much in the schedules on our tax returns like charitable contributions (we tithe 10%+ annually from our gross income) etc that aren't accounted for on the fafsa...</p>

<p>It seems to be a straight calc from income...I went to the gov page and pdf of how its calculated and see nothing there.</p>

<p>Now what.</p>

<p>Debt and charity are not really considered for FAFSA. Someone else will have to answer the social security, etc.</p>

<p>do you really expect the federal government (i.e, every other taxpayer) to support your religious tithe? Like other charitable contributions, such funds could be used to pay college expenses… Yes, fafsa doesn’t care about home equity, but Profile schools does.</p>

<p>Fafsa is mostly income, but also assets. But that is income AFTER taxes are deducted.</p>

<p>We also pay 100% of health insurance. It doesn’t matter as far as FAFSA is concerned. Neither does it count employer paid health insurance as untaxed income. Those of us who have to self-pay it all are just up the creek on that one.</p>

<p>The bottom line for the self employed is that Profile schools will add back much of what the IRS allows.</p>

<p>Mortgage is not taken into account. Only debts against reportable assets are accounted for on FAFSA. The primary home is not a reportable asset so the debt against it is not considered by FAFSA. If you own a 2nd home then the reportable value of that is reduced by the amount of the mortgage debt against it. </p>

<p>Charitable donations are not considered by FAFSA. That is considered a personal choice and not something that would be considered for financial aid.</p>

<p>Consumer debt is not considered by FAFSA. Again that is considered a personal choice.</p>

<p>The income you report on FAFSA is the AGI. Self employment health insurance deductions are deducted on your tax return before the AGI so those are already allowed for by FAFSA. I believe for SS 1/2 of self employment taxes is also deducted on your tax return befor the AGI so that is accounted for. Then the EFC formula includes allowances for FICA deductions on income earned by work so that accounts for the other half of the FICA taxes (the same way non self employed people have their FICA accounted for by FAFSA.</p>

<p>

The income protection allowances include allowances for health costs. If someone has extremely high health costs then they can ask the school for a special circumstances adjustment. Health insurance costs paid with before tax money cannot be used for an adjustment as they are already reflected in the AGI. Health insurance paid with after tax dollars may be considered if they are unusually high.</p>

<p>Oh… just when my misery was enjoying company, swimcatsmom… so it’s only people who are not self-employed but still have to pay for their own health insurance that are up this particular creek. Jolly. Don’t imagine my after-tax insurance premiums are unusually high, or at least not higher than most other people’s unusually high.</p>

<p>'rent - We had a special circumstances adjustment for for high medical expenses a few years back and they allowed us to include our medical insurance premiums (which were after tax money) in the medical costs. It might be worth asking if you would qualify for a special circumstances adjustment. The worst they can say is no.</p>

<p>From [FinAid</a> | Professional Judgment | Medical and Dental Expenses](<a href=“http://www.finaid.org/educators/pj/medical.phtml]FinAid”>http://www.finaid.org/educators/pj/medical.phtml)</p>

<p>

</p>

<p>Mortgages and tithes are “lifestyle choices”. The fed gov’t isn’t going to give someone more FA simply so they can give more to their churches and/or purchase an investment (a home).</p>

<p>I know that’s difficult to digest…</p>

<p>But, also remember, much/most of FA packages are student loans anyway, so that may not have really interested you anyway.</p>

<p>Its SHOCKING that charitable giving
supporting homeless shelters,
food kitchens
foster kids,
cancer research,
aids research,
hurricane relief etc</p>

<p>is not accounted for …??
because it is part of the deductions…right?</p>

<p>How we give shows something about what we value and our care for humanity…</p>

<p>soooo I need to count on the government to take care of all of these things…yeah right…</p>

<p>So my choice to be generous is wrong and I am supposed to be selfish and think only of number 1.?</p>

<p>It’s not selfish to take care of one’s family first. That’s being responsible.</p>

<p>It’s your CHOICE to give 10% of gross to your church. You could give 10% of net (or less) and still be a very charitable giver. </p>

<p>The way you put it is this…to be a charitable giver, one must give 10% of gross to their church. many of us are very charitable, but we can’t afford to give 10% of gross incomes to our churches. you need to redefine “charitable.”</p>

<p>It would be wrong for me to give an excessive amount to my church and then expect my fellow taxpayers to “pony up” for my kids’ education.</p>

<p>mom 2 kids</p>

<p>giving where ever–is about caring about others…</p>

<p>my kids are fed, clothes etc
we aren’t name brand people, live within our means
AND still give to support so many charitble things…</p>

<p>imagine if March of Dimes
Susan B Komen and all of that didn’t exist???</p>

<p>I can take care of my family and give…
10% is nothing…compared to the fact I am keeping 90%…its about a heart attitude.</p>

<p>If its not important that WHY are there so many charities and Why does the Fed allow the deduction…to encourage charitable giving.</p>

<p>Teaching my kids to be good stewards, good savers and generous givers is a crucial lesson…about the heart and not being selfish…and sometimes it means asking “do you buy yourself something you want–or give it to a cause for someone who could really use the help.”</p>

<p>If you haven’t ever needed help, you miss the point.</p>

<p>Fogdog, it is awesome that you support charities and that you are teaching your children this by example.</p>

<p>The FAFSA, though, is a pretty simplified instrument. I doesn’t do a lot of analysis of where money goes, but with basic questions determines what might be available for college costs. Truthfully, though, there is not that much aid made available through the FAFSA anyway, so it probably won’t make much difference for you.</p>

<p>If the numbers work out for you in such a way that those charitible contributions are getting squeezed, you might want to think of reducing them or eliminating them just for the years you have kids in college and find other ways to contribute with volunteering time or other kinds of help.</p>

<p>The world needs more people like you!</p>

<p>Everyone should give…I give to my church, I give to charities. You’re acting like there are only two choices - give 10% of gross or give nothing. Are you saying that those of who are giving a smaller percentage than you are aren’t doing enough? Are you saying that we’re selfish, and you give the right amount???</p>

<br>

<br>

<p>Well, you said that you’re giving 10% of GROSS. IF that is true, then you’re not “keeping 90%” - and as you’ve already stated, you’re giving a lot to taxes, FICA and health insurance. </p>

<p>But, if you want to believe that you’re keeping 90% and that you can take care of your family, then what do you need FA for?</p>

<p>My question is about that fafsa doesn’t adjust for income that is going out to charities…and it is not in the disposable income of a family.</p>

<p>How much you give and what you do with it is your business…why are you so offended?</p>

<p>Our giving values are ours…giving off our gross and where we give it etc is also our choice. We give off the gross whether we have a $1 income or $10 income…still a heart condition issue…</p>

<p>Frankly wouldn’t it be a great family goal to be able to give say 25% or more!
Heck yeah!
Imagine what good could be done with that rather than driving new cars or filling closets! Whoohoo!!</p>

<p>How sad this world would be if everyone only thought of themselves first…
or only gave when they felt like they had “extra”…

sort of like padding a resume with meaningless ECs don’t you think? </p>

<p>How many people do we find who claim to care about this or that cause withut really putting money where their mouth is…I find it amazing how many I meet who say they care about an issue but who never stroke that check…Look at someone’s calendar and checkbook, and you find out what they REALLY value.</p>

<p>Back to My point FAFSA etc should account for mortgages
(not all families have a mortgage–some have none, some have jumbo money loans) real estate varies around the nation.
and FAFSA should account for income that goes out to charitable giving…especially since our fed adjusts to it to encourage support for charitable organizations…</p>

<p>A strict 25-35% of income for EFC does not accurately reflect a family.</p>

<p>If you step back from it and look at the FAFSA from the 100 mile up perspective all it does it quantify your income and says you can afford this percentage out of your current income and savings. The FAFSA does not consider any lifestyle choices, whether they are noble like charitable contributions or ignoble like being a spendo. It allows for a home and allows for the size of the family and various current circumstances then spits out a number. The only presumption the FAFSA makes is that if you have higher income or higher assets then you theoretically can pay more for college and opens the door to assistance in the form of Pell grants if you make little to no money and have no assets. That’s all it does.</p>

<p>

</p>

<p>Nor does this accurately reflect how FAFSA works. There are automatic zero EFCs, there are income and asset protection allowances, and there are asset classes that are valued differently or excluded entirely from the EFC calculation In addition, colleges can alter a student’s EFC to allow for special circumstances. </p>

<p>Here is the formula for 2009-2010: <a href=“http://ifap.ed.gov/efcformulaguide/attachments/111408EFCFormulaGuide0910.pdf[/url]”>http://ifap.ed.gov/efcformulaguide/attachments/111408EFCFormulaGuide0910.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>Presumably any charitable contribution reduces the giver’s adjusted gross income via a deduction on his or her Federal taxes, so indirectly you are being rewarded by FAFSA for your contributions by having a lower reported AGI.</p>

<p>FAFSA determines if your family needs the federal government to take dollars from other taxpayers to pay for your child’s education. There is no such thing as “government money”. It’s all someone’s income. Let me repeat that for the slow: FAFSA “money” is somone else’s tax dollars.
To allow one family to pay less for college because they support a church or charity (whose main purpose another taxpayer may oppose) and expect the other taxpayer to pick up the slack is totally contrary to what most of us want.</p>

<p>fogfog, it is admirable that you choose to help out these people. Honestly, it is and I applaud you. I have been both the giver and the recipient of some of those services.</p>

<p>

</p>

<p>My family only makes around 18k, so giving 2k (or 4k in your 25% example) is not a matter of driving an extra car or having extra clothes, it is the difference between putting food on the table. So please, don’t look down on us who simply cannot give. It isn’t fair. I choose to give back with actions (I run a nonprofit basketball league and have since I was 15) rather than money. </p>

<p>However, it is not the school’s, or the federal government’s, job to give you extra aid because you make a choice. It is that simple.</p>