EFC ... What??

<p>Say the school is $20,000. public school & only, uses FAFSA.
EFC is $15,000.
Need would then be $5,000.
Stafford would go against need, not EFC- Plus loans would be used for EFC if necessary.</p>

<p>A school that uses PROFILE &/or their own forms can look at assets & debt more in depth to determine extra need or extra money they can decide could be used for the education.</p>

<p>I have heard of schools using Plus loans to say that covers need, but that is pretty shabby IMO.
I think it is bad enough to use Stafford or Perkins loans to meet need, but at least our family has mostly had those loans subsidized ( govt pays interest while in school)</p>

<p>*Again, this is a “very small” company. I thought there was something about being under 100 employees?? *</p>

<p>You seem to be confusing FAFSA and CSS.</p>

<p>I think only FAFSA has that small business threshold.</p>

<p>I don’t think CSS schools have that “rule”. As a matter of fact, I was reading Villanova’s website and they clearly state that they don’t exclude the values of farms or small businesses. It sounds like your equipment has value and that is what has been counted.</p>

<p>*And yes, my son has safety schools. He was awarded a full, four year ride at a popular university. It’s not one that he would want to attend, but he may have to. *</p>

<p>Good. Glad to hear that. </p>

<p>And…when a school publishes “average indebtness” that only counts federal STUDENT loans…it doesn’t count Parent Plus loans OR private loans that the student may have that a parent has co-signed for.</p>

<p>First of all – does the college even promise to meet “full need”.</p>

<p>If yes, keep in mind that “full need” is what THEY define, NOT your FAFSA EFC. </p>

<p>If no, then it really doesn’t matter – the college will give what they feel like giving.</p>

<p>The figures that show average indebtedness are for student debt only, and limited only to loans such as Stafford and Perkins, and <em>possibly</em> loans given by the college itself – it doesn’t include outside private bank loans. (Colleges would have no way of tracking those). It definitely doesn’t include PLUS loans.</p>

<p>A PLUS loan is NOT properly used to “meet need” within a need-based package. Rather, it is a form of financing that is suggested by the college for the parents to meet the family contribution together with unmet need, if any.</p>

<p>The few schools who are part of the meets-full-need group do not count Parent Plus Loans as meeting need. These are offered as a way to cover what the school considers to be the family EFC, which is not the EFC number of the FAFSA. For some families, the two results can be wildly different. This doesn’t help you, but I want to counter the perception that meets-full-need schools count offering excess loans as meeting need. They don’t. But they do take into account a lot of things, as have been discussed here and on other threads, which FAFSA does not.</p>

<p>[cross-posted with Calmom.]</p>

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<p>It sounds to me like this school does NOT meet full financial need. They have given you a financial aid award that has a significant gap in it. Either that or they have used the information on the Profile or a school form to determine that you are not eligible for more need based aid.</p>

<p>Call the school and talk to a financial aid officer. That is the only way to find out how THIS school used your information to determine your aid.</p>

<p>If this is a FAFSA only school…the ONLY aid that the FAFSA helps the school determine is the federally funded aid. If the school awards institutional money, again, they do not have to use the FAFSA formula to determine how much INSTITUTIONAL money they are going to award your child.</p>

<p>Did you have to send them your tax returns etc? If so, information on those, particularly about your business, might have had an impact on your child’s award.</p>

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<p>UG is a public university. Was your daughter an instate student for UG? If so, your Plus Loan amount would have been much lower than that of a more expensive private school (which is what you are describing with your son…a finacial aid award PLUS the Parent Plus Loan of $40K). That very much could account for the difference in the Plus loan amounts. If the school is MORE expensive and your aid is similar, the amount of the Plus would be HIGHER.</p>

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<p>Yes it does. The Plus Loan is disbursed to YOU to pay college bills. Parents can get the money to pay their kids’ college bills ANYWHERE they choose. The college would have no way of knowing if the parent took money out of savings, current income OR loans for paying the college bills. Our kids’ colleges have NO IDEA if we took out loans. How would they know that? We certainly were under NO OBLIGATION to tell them. Our kids have both graduated and NEITHER COLLEGE asked about parent debt at the end of the four years (it’s actually NONE OF THEIR BUSINESS). Both colleges report student debt on their common data set.</p>

<p>BUT the colleges DO know about student loan debt. Stafford and Perkins loans are federal STUDENT loans and they are disbursed to the COLLEGE. The COLLEGE awards them on their financial aid package. They know the amount that the student accepts, they know the amount that the college receives.</p>

<p>Thank you very much for trying to help me understand. Since we have no savings, the business is our only asset - and it’s not worth much. I guess we need to make an appointment and talk with them. I’m not sure how they see that we could come up with $160,000 unless we sold the business (and had no means of income) or sold the equipment (which is leased or has notes) - and then would have to shut our doors, anyway. </p>

<p>As I said, we sent personal and business taxes. I’m wondering if I filled the CSS Profile out incorrectly. I’m going to pull my files and review them. I sent estimated information in the fall. I know we went online and updated the FAFSA information after filing our taxes, but I don’t think the Profile information was updated. Wouldn’t they use the taxes to verify everything? I know that my estimated FAFSA info was more optimistic (not much) than the final figures turned out to be. The problem has to be somewhere in the Profile!</p>

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<p>I don’t believe it’s a “problem” with the Profile. It’s just that this school USES the information from the Profile and your tax returns in a way that doesn’t give you the aid you had hoped for. </p>

<p>But call the school…discuss this with them.</p>

<p>And again I ask…are you instate for UG? Because if so, your Plus loan WOULD be less than for a private university that costs thousands more per year to attend. In addition, UG doesn’t use the Profile at all…so your business assets would not have been a consideration AT ALL for that school. It sounds like it IS a consideration for this school.</p>

<p>Sorry, by UG, I meant undergrad. My daughter attended an out of state private school.</p>

<p>Isn’t it amazing how many people post on CC and ask for help but they never want to answer any questions, as if someone will take something away from them. I think that there are some very knowlegable people on this forum that are willing to lend a helping hand. Maybe we should just have a VENT thread so people could unload with no responce.
What State do you live in?
What school is it?
These people are trying to help!</p>

<p>$200k for an undergrad degree is insane even if you had the money, a plus loan is out of the question. Save the money for grad school.</p>

<p>I’m sorry that this happened. I agree with Thumper that the situation probably lies in the way the school evaluates your business. You should call them and find out exactly how they got their numbers. If there are comparable schools that accepted your son and have given him better packages, you can bring that to their attention and they just might be flexible in how they view your business. I have seen that happen. With family owned businesses, there can be a lot of gray areas on how things are attributed. You may have to go and meet personally with the financial aid officer and bring all of your documents. Do talk to them about your situation and see if you can get some give on their part.</p>

<p>The way it works for financial aid is very confusing. You fill out FAFSA really for eligibility for Federal funds and any other monies a college might have available that is distributed on this methodology. That could be state grants such as in our state, TAP. It could also be some optional federal programs like SEOGH and Perkins loans which not all schools have. The only thing that FAFSA EFC guarantees you is some PELL money if your EFC is below a certain threshhold, and I believe you are just about on the line, and for subsidized Stafford loans not to exceed the Cost of Attendence at the school. Your student can also get non subsidized Stafford loans, again up to COA, less any other aid. That is ALL that is guaranteed by that EFC number. Schools that use FAFSA only do not tend to be the ones that meet 100% of need, so they will tend to gap you if that is their only financial indicator. You might get lucky and get a school that has a great need program and merit money and will meet that FAFSA need figure, but that is a tough find. </p>

<p>So then you have schools that do tend to meet need, but want an additional financial aid application and calculator which is usually PROFILE. That theses schools meet need, does not mean they meet need as defined by FAFSA. They define need by their own standards and it does not have to match the EFC at all, as you may have gathered by now. Two big issues are non custodial parents and home equity, neither or which is counted by FAFSA. They say PROFILE goes after the silver in your teeth. The value of your cars, your other kids’ savings accounts, most anything can be taken into consideration even your qualified 401K and IRA assets. The school decides what they count and use. If you own your own business, they can value it any way they choose. The financial counselors at many of the private colleges may have professional discretion they can use on some issues that are not spelled out, and you might have leeway there. Give them a call and see what can be done. I hope that you have some other options that work better than this college’s.</p>

<p>Thank you very much for your guidance. We have scheduled an appointment and will take all our documentation.</p>

<p>We never knew that the FAFSA was only for federal aid. (duh … guess we should start reading more.)</p>

<p>Blueblood, you are new to this process. It’s a very complicated one and sometimes it’s hard to ferret out what you really need to know. Good luck with your meeting. Take all documentation with you…everything.</p>

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<p>I really appreciate all the responses that I have received - and I’ve learned a lot without naming the school. I’m not afraid of anyone taking anything away from me? However, I surely don’t want to jeopardize my son’s chances just in case it’s a misunderstanding - or my fault.</p>