<p>I'm with Anxious...I will venture a response here that is not going to be popular. The reality is that unless you are independently wealthy or have a huge trust fund for college, you will NOT be very comfortable paying your EFC if you are a higher income family. For the last three years, our family has paid OUT OF POCKET over $30,000 for one kid. This year, we are paying for THAT kid and the second one...oh...the second one is about $36,000 out of pocket. Yes....$66,000 in checks for this year. Our total EFC (added together for both kids) was $42,000 but since neither of them goes to a college that meets "full need", that left us paying the bills. The reality is, we CAN do it. It means tightening up on extra expenditures...not very many shopping trips, dinners out, no vacations, little in the "new clothing" department, no new cars, no new furniture, no fancy meals at home, thermostat turned down a few degrees, watching lights on/off, being cautious about things like using the washer and dishwasher when they are totally full...not half empty, cancelling extended cable (we didn't watch most of the channels anyway), borrowing books from the library instead of buying them, consolidating phone and cell phone bills. In other words, cutting back on expenses that really are unnecessary or can be reduced. We did not expect need based financial aid. We earn well in excess of the average salary in this country and it was our CHOICE to allow our kids to go to expensive colleges. Both had the option of going elsewhere. We feel fortunate that we are able to do this and we also realize this is a decision some families might find odd. But still...it's a lot of money we pay each month...and we certainly don't LOVE transfering funds to the colleges in that amount. We would rather have new cars, go on vacation or even eat steak instead of hamburger.</p>
<p>This is where the choice, or rather the decision you and your family must make is extremely personal. Personally, I really do believe that parents are bordering on foolish if they elect not to provide for their own retirement. I hope if you say that you "have no savings to speak of" that does not mean you have no retirement savings. If you are lucky enough to work for a company that has a secure defined benefit plan that you know will come through for you in a certain amount (and not be pulled out from under you in some future buyout situation), then ok. But some of us won't have anything to retire on except what we stash away in a 401k or IRA (or both if squirrel it away constantly!). Frankly, I'm not holding my breath that Social Security will be there in any meaningful amount.</p>
<p>There are so many really good lower cost colleges out there that to not save for yourself in order to pay for a fancy school ($40k - $50k is fancy in my book) is kinda nuts. $15k for a state school may be unavoidable depending on the state, but please people - save for your retirement!!!</p>
<p>Don't forget that rule of thumb about 6 months income in a liquid cash account for emergencies like losing a job (it can happen folks, trust me, and you're going to need to eat and pay the light bill in addition to the tuition), not to mention health insurance and disability insurance (not all employers provide this either). Some of us higher income types are saving and paying insurance bills instead of for maids and fancy cable tv.</p>
<p>I'm also going to say something unpopular. Many good colleges will not cost $30,000 a year. If that's an amount that puts your family in a precarious situation, then those more expensive colleges shouldn't even be considered.</p>
<p>To the OP: If your EFC is that high, you need to start looking at less expensive options. Yes, you could take out loans, but the amount you will be paying per month after graduation is utterly ridiculous. Flagship state Us, local LACs, and a combination of community college and university are all options. There are a lot of people on this board for which high tuitions aren't as big a deal, so you get a lot of information on some of the most expensive colleges. Look around at some colleges that give lots of merit money or that cost far less. When it comes down to it, you can get a great education anywhere, and when money IS an object, you need to do your research.</p>
<p>Tuition for in-state residents at the public state Universities can be a terrific bargain. UCLA's tuition (all of the UC's have the same tuition) is just over $6K per year. The Cal State Universities are even less-- a real option for a student able to live at home and commute.</p>
<p>Like the OP, I'm not whining or suggesting at all that we're not in a comfortable financial position. I'm simply trying to get some information on what, if anything, we can hope for if we decide to send out kids to a costly private school. Many of these schools say that large percentages of their students get some type of financial aid, and I'm curious what that aid is. Low-interest loans? Work study options?</p>
<p>We are in a situation where it just would not be responsible for us to pay what our EFC is. We have looming situations that could be big problems that would need money, and for us to ignore them would not be wise. Without those developments, that's where we put our money. We had stocked up our pension plans and whatever we could for the college years, so that our kids could go whereever they wanted for college, but with recent developments, that is not going to happen.
But we well know that no financial aid program is going to look at what MIGHT happen, even if the chances are pretty good. They only fund after it happens and there are no assets or income. And so it should be.<br>
As for funding for a pension, the system does not encourage it, making you add back into your assets any amount you put away specifically for qualfied retirement plan. Yet those whose employers fully fund their pensions, do not get those donations counted. Another glitch in the system. Many families I know go on a hiatus for contributing to their pensions during the college years in order to meet college costs. We could not do that because our 5 kids are spread out in age, so we have a very long time in the years when we should be saving.<br>
Still, it is better not to qualify, most of the time than to qualify, as you do have more choices that way. It does hurt, however, when the best educational match for college has been such a priority item for so many years to find that the cost figures so heavily in the equation.</p>
<p>"The reality is that unless you are independently wealthy or have a huge trust fund for college, you will NOT be very comfortable paying your EFC if you are a higher income family."</p>
<p>Outside of the super rich, who is comfortable paying for their EFC? I don't know anyone who finds it easy to do so. At the same time, however, most of us would not find it easy to pay for our dream car -- if we really decided to pull out all of the financial stops and buy the perfect car for us. Most of us, however, happily settle for what we can comforably afford. I think that we should do the same with colleges.</p>
<p>Sure, it would be great if our kids could go to the college that best met their needs without considering finances. The same goes for things like cars, houses (including what school district we could afford to live in), etc. However, that's not the way that the world works, and it's not realistic to expect that college admissions will work any differently from the other things that we have to pay for.</p>
<p>When I think of things that are unfair, I think it's far more unfair and far more life defining for low income children to have to go to substandard schools that lack decent teachers (A higher proportion of teachers lack certification in public schools serving mainly poor children than is the case for public schools serving middle and upper class kids) than it is for college-bound students to not be able to go to their first choice college because of financial reasons. Wherever they end up going, those students still are far ahead of the ones who couldn't go to college at all due to not being able to even graduate h.s. due to having gotten an inferior education: One that their parents couldn't afford to supplement through tutors, enrichment activities, etc.</p>
<p>Amen, Northstarmom. Given the gap in educational opportunities is so wide, any child who has parents advocating and preparing them for college is so advantaged. </p>
<p>But knowing all of that still does not quell our personal wishes for our children. Many of those wishes are irrational and self serving, but working towards the ideal situations are what most of us do, and it does hurt when we come up short. THere are truly much more important things we can give to our children in terms of becoming good, responsible adults, but this is a tangible as opposed to the attributes that are not so easy to "give", perhaps impossible to give, just show and hope.</p>
<p>Haha...I think my parents' combined income in way more than $170,000. But they "invest"/squander it in a lot of crap. So we have a ridiculous amount of assets but small "cash flow" as my parents like to call it, hence state uni for me!</p>
<p>It's very tough for upper middle-class families to afford expensive privates, realistically speaking. That's why many of the most expensive schools will be very stratified income-wise. Very poor people who qualify for a lot of aid, and very rich people (and no, combined income of 170,000 is /not/ "very" rich...trust me...there are richer...that is not yet upper class) whose parents can throw around 40 grand a year and still live in the comfort they're accostomed to. </p>
<p>It is important to submit the FAFSA anyway, because many schools require it if you are being considered for merit aid. Also, should someone in your family suddenly lose their job or something, it'll make getting grants for later years of your education more feasible.</p>
<p>Waa, waa, waa.</p>
<p>Oh the humanity ... $170k a year and Momsie and Poppo don't think they should have to pay the freight for their precious little Muffy to go to a USNews Top 20 school?</p>
<p>In the words of the late, great Steve Martin -- EXCU-U-U-U-S-E ME!! What, he's still alive? Who knew?</p>
<p>This is what makes CC such a great place to lurk and unwind after a long, hard MLK Day. It's like soft porns for those of us who are going to be pretty damn happy just to be IN good school next year and ready to start the best 4, 5 or 6 years of our lives.</p>
<p>Yeah, I guess that now that App Day has passed, we seamlessly switch the whining about how unfair it is that 5 gnarly kids at the same exclusive prep school will all be suidical if they can't all be Yalies to how (like, totally!) unfair it is that RICH people have to pay the list price to buy the college decal that they so desperately want to put in the rear window of their Mercedes SUV so that when they park at the CLUB everyone will know that, wow, they're successful parents.</p>
<p>Gee, I already miss the threads from the kids with the 2250 SATs moaning because there are, like, only 30 colleges in the country that they can't just walk right into but ... guess what ... those are the only 30 colleges that they've been wet dreaming about since 6th grade. Drat, life is so unfair.</p>
<p>I guess, the FAFSA and CSS are, you know, too boring. Just too much math for us simple kids. Well there's always the angst of the last week of March to look forward to, huh?</p>
<p>Groovinhard, I have a question:</p>
<p>Right now we can handle the first three years of my son's private college. (He starts this Fall.) I also expect that during the next three years we'll be able to gather the additional $50,000 or so for that fourth year. But what if something happens -- like, we wind up spending all that $$ on long-term care, or because we lose our jobs -- and we wind up needing aid? Will the fact that we didn't file the FAFSA for his freshman year hinder us from later getting aid??</p>
<p>It is a myth that "very poor people" with zero or low EFCs have it better. A ridiculous myth. At that low level, unless it is artificially low because of invisible helping hands, even with a "full ride" it is ornerous to go to college. There are very, very few kids who get this full ride. Low EFC generally means fewer choices and a tough fight for every dollar needed to go to school. Very few schools provide full ride packages, and if you look at the number of Pell grant recipients at the more generous school, they are few. We see posts here at CC from remarkable kids who have qualified for some of these financial aid scholarships and may be headed to schools that bequeath them,and often don't realize that they are the minority.</p>
<p>I don't see many posts from RICH people here. Most of us work for every cent we have, and juggle many needs. When you are looking at costs that are such a significant percent of income or assets, it is daunting. I remember years ago, I did not believe it would ever get so expensive. College costs are something that have truly spiraled up there. I think most of us who are not getting financial aid or get little aid, know that we are fortunate to have the choices we do. We also know that there are other things much more important in our families than paying for an expensive school even if it is possible, and we work with that information. </p>
<p>For those who have taken their eye off of college costs, and have only perused general articles that seem to say that financial aid is here to help, it is a shock to see how much a family is expected to pay. I am not talking about the wealthy families that do not bother to go through this tedious analysis. I am talking about the many families who have to balance their budgets and be responsible in making decisions of where to spend, save, donate their money. I hope our kids achieve this goal of learning to manage their income as it is a skill many people do not learn even if they make a lot of money. I don't see any problem in discussing the alternatives available and questiong the system which is what the parents and kids here do. Complaining comes with the territory, and I don't see the venom about things that I have seen on some other boards about other issues. </p>
<p>Also we don't pick our parents, and they are the ones that can make a big diifference in how smooth our journies are. I have seen kids who have a rough go getting through college because their parents are not supportive financially and in other ways. It's a shame that the onus is on the parents until age 24, as it really means that that your parents have a huge part in your college choices.</p>
<p>Senator, leave the attitude at the door. The purpose of this thread is to give people advice on financing college, not sarcastically berate them. Everyone's situation is unique, and because of the way the financial aid system is set up at elite colleges, it is supposed to be just as "difficult" for a family with an AGI of $170,000 to send their kids to college as a family with an AGI of $35,000. So please don't throw around your inaccurate stereotypes.</p>
<p>"It is important to submit the FAFSA anyway, because many schools require it if you are being considered for merit aid."</p>
<p>Thank you this is the kind of advice I was looking for. I have given up on need-based aid, but thankfully I am academically strong enough to receive merit aid from some colleges! As for the more prestiguous schools - any advice on how to receive some help from these schools (as I'm sure they don't give much merit based aid), or should I just concentrate on outside scholarships?</p>
<p>Well which schools specifically are you looking at, and what are your GPA, test scores, and other relevant pieces of information?</p>
<p>We paid half our income this year towards S's school. That was an 80,000 income, if anyone's counting. Saved some in the past for school; silly of us, i guess, and saved retirement money in the bank. Lordy, lordy. How silly of us. It all got counted in. And, we live in a high priced corner of the country, to boot.</p>
<p>What, are we nuts? No, we live on, simply, less. A lot less. It's so much easier to downsize if you never upsized, and we never did.</p>
<p>So, never paid for private school, or cleaning person, or home repairs, for that matter (H is pretty handy, but still, we'll have to sell this place as an "as is", for sure.) Tiny house, five and a half really small rooms. Definitely not a competitive public school system. No Disneyland trips (see other thread.) No tutoring, no private lessons, no summer programs. Have, in total, between H and I, owned three new cars. Run them to the ground.</p>
<p>This year, our EFC was 38,000. Qualified us for sub loan and workstudy. We've got high hopes that our continually plummeting income might net a few grant dollars for next year, but if not, no worries.</p>
<p>We'll probably retire younger than most CC'ers, anyway, cuz we just don't need much. House is paid off, expenses keep going down; really, it's just health insurance that is the snag in our plans. Universal single payer, anyone?</p>
<p>I never had a 200K income, but I can't imagine what all I'd do with one if I did. Paying for college would be chump change out of that, for us.</p>
<p>What we value is education. I think the schools we sent our kids to are worth it. What else would we do with the money, anyway?</p>
<p>Looking at schools </p>
<p>UPenn
Johns Hopkins
MIT
Cornell
Duke</p>
<p>Scores and stuff arent relevant in these cases, b/c if I get in, Im not outstanding enough to receive merit scholarships from these institutions.
(I've applied to less prestigious schools that may give me scholarships)
But I want to know tricks (if there are any) for financing an educations at these schools.</p>
<p>Yeah, you won't get merit money at them, but at least they have strong financial aid programs.</p>
<p>No tricks, Chyea. Of the bunch you listed Hopkins and Duke give merit money, but it is really difficult to get any. You may want to look at Pitt, U Arizona, Buffalo, for starters. They have money for kids who would be contenders for entry at the schools you have listed. Look at some of the state univesities' honors programs. Many have merit awards that are given by number cutoff so you can see where you stand. Also Case Western is a very good school that rewards top contenders; Denison also comes to mind, as an excellent LAC with generous merit money. Grinnell also falls into this category. Take a look at USN&WR's list of schools that give a lot of merit $$ and check out the more generous schools for specifics. You should have some financial safeties on your list. Schools with just a few generous awards are not financial safeties because even top students may not get that money. With college costs what they are, even half tuition is ornerous.</p>