Efc?

Paying for College
41

<p>Weasel -- check out her 5 schools. I rest my case. And I believe that this is a discussion board, not a touchie feelie board. </p>

<p>What, at some time no one in the family thought about only need-based, mucho-expensive schools? Honors college at a state U? And now she's shocked, SHOCKED, that a formula that we all use says that her family needs to pay, pay, pay? A little late to figure that out, huh?</p>

<p>The system is fair. What's unfair? Rich people hiring financial aid consultants, trying to game the system, and maintain their costly lifestyles or protect their retirement savings at all costs. And that takes "need-based" money from students and families that could truly use it.</p>

42

<p>^Exactly, Senator.</p>

43

<p>"(I've applied to less prestigious schools that may give me scholarships)"
Including 4 state schools and many other downscale private schools. </p>

<p>I did think ahead. Now this is further thinking. If I am able to get into better schools, could I attend them without taxing my parents?</p>

<h2>Of course maybe I'm just rich and therefore stupid. Erego I cannot think for myself. But wait... was I always well off? I dunno - although there is a distinct possiblity that we came to this country with only $500 in our pockets - no car, no house, no savings, no nothing, and just possibly I spent my youngest years living in the projects. But then again we're just rich folks.</h2>

<p>Anyways back to the important financial aid stuff.</p>

<p>cptofthehouse thanks. I am increasing my outside scholarship search. This seems to be the best option. Like I said I have applied to plenty of lower tier schools, but we all dream big - so just exploring posibilities.</p>

44

<p>To help finance an education at those schools:
If you get in, take the unsubsidized stafford loan they will offer you (if you complete the FAFSA).
If you are not already employed, get a job. Definitely over the summer, and if possible and necessary, during school too.</p>

45

<p>Yep, many upper middle income people with very bright kids think that their kids will be going ivy on a full scholarship. That's what everyone is telling them. It comes a shock to many, that many of the top schools give need based only, and that heavy merit aid is very difficult to get. Then when the famiiies apply for financial aid, they don't qualify, or qualify much. Next step is the Profile or the schools' own financial apps which often further reduce the need. Then when the award comes, the shock comes when famiies painfully learn that some schools gap, and many schools that don't, offer self help packages. This is a path that many take who were not familiar with the world of college admissions. Most, if not all, of these parents did not go to these schools. They may have gone to state schools which were once upon a time much cheaper relative to middle income, local schools where they may have worked part time, night school, schools from other countries or no college. Also my generation enjoyed more generous middle class aid, and since costs were so much lower relative to other things, it was possible to cover much of your costs with govt aid. And scholarships such as National Merit as a notable example, covered a nice piece of the cost, with most colleges anteeing up the remainder. The NM amounts have stayed constant from my day, but the cost of college has sky rocketed. The same with a number of scholarship. Those $1000 and under awards were once great catches when the tuition was running $3000 for a private school. Now they are barely making a scratch in the cost. It's easy to critisise these parents, but many are doing their best and trying their hardest to provide what used to something only the upper echelon families in status and income could get. You are harping at the wrong crowd. These are not families who are without a though throwing thousands into the pot for the perfect college. They feel every check.<br>
Not to say most of us could not tighten our financial belts a lot more. Garland, you are absolutely right. Most of us did not live with modest goals in mind, and are paying for it when it comes down to college costs. There is a lot of fat to be cut, and when that EFC comes in, many families do have an awakening of sorts. </p>

<p>The folks that need the financial consultants the most are often hard workers who have accumulated some assets for retirement and saved according to basic principles, only to find that the rules are such that they have eliminated or reduced financial aid. These are folks without a company pension, who have saved money in their kids' names in a college fund, who have paid off their houses and reported their kids income from working in a family business, and are not hiding their money. This is a whole new thing for them. Those who have the money don't need to game the financial aid system. They tend to have pensions, mortgaged homes and other assets, money in shelters and are not going to be applying for financial aid anyways. </p>

<p>I can't fault anyone who is struggling with college costs. Many of them are wonderful,caring parents and good people.</p>

46

<p>Chyea-</p>

<p>Do file the FAFSA and if required the CSS or other financial apps just to get them on record. We have one S now a freshman and had a relatively large EFC last year - I don't have the number handy but it was somewhere in your ballpark (we've saved for college since he was born so that all got counted in). We filed the financial paperwork for a National Merit scholarship since my employer is a sponser.</p>

<p>He was accepted at Penn and offered a small scholarship (combo grant/work study) which actually surprised us. His preferred choice was Carnegie Mellon which did not offer anything but was willing to cough up some money when we showed them Penn's offer. I believe a lot of schools are willing to consider matching offers if you have something else in hand. The top schools all have different levels of what they consider "need". So even if your top choices don't offer you money initially, they might be willing to compete with their peer organizations. You might want to do some research in the finaid departments of your top choice schools (or research the CC boards) to see if your "less prestigious" schools are considered competitive in this area.</p>

<p>As cpt noted, we used old fashioned standards in our financial planning and it probably did affect financial aid, but we fortunately do have the ability to provide for our S's chosen education. (And hope that he has the ability to repay us after graduation.) Otherwise he would indeed be going to the state U. They should really offer college funding seminars in nursery school instead of high school! And yet ... there is a link between some families' ability to play the system and higher costs for those who don't.</p>

47

<p>Marilyn - </p>

<p>Thanks for the input. So your S received a grant from UPenn even though your EFC was higher than the total cost of attending? If so, I believe I will finish sending in the FAFSA's and CSS's.</p>

48

<p>Hey, thanks for putting it all out there at last -- </p>

<p>"I've applied to less prestigious schools that may give me scholarships,
including 4 state schools and many other downscale private schools." </p>

<p>Amazing how members of my generation can become so snooty so quickly after their parents arrive with the proverbial $500.</p>

<p>So let's sum up -- parents with $170,000 a year, scholarships on the table but you're parents aren't willing to pay the price, any price, for you to attend one of the five most expensive schools in the USA? Oh, woe is you.</p>

<p>But wait, you already have aid from "less prestigeous" schools or, OMG you might have to go to a DOWNSCALE private school. </p>

<p>You want advice? Stop whining, go to school and have fun. Make a list of the 10 educators or community leaders who have positively affected your life and then check out where each of them went to college. I bet that almost all of them went to publics or DOWNSCALE privates.</p>

49

<p>VeryHappy, regarding not having applied for aid as a freshman - yes, in some schools it can make it harder to get aid in subsequent years. One of the schools my d applied to makes it very clear that you should apply even if you don't think you qualify - in subsequent years, they dole out money in this order: kids who previously qualified; kids who applied as freshmen but didn't qualify; everyone else.</p>

50

<p>Chyea-</p>

<p>Yes, our EFC was higher than annual tuition. But many private schools do their own calculations and their idea of EFC and need may well be different than FAFSA, especially with a younger sibling. So don't let the FAFSA number scare you. As a parent, I commend you for investigating ways to help your parents! In terms of private scholarships, I've read on CC that the most likely ones are local - the nationally posted ones are almost impossible. In my son's HS the Guidance office maintained a list. I do want to note that once my S was accepted rolling admission to the state U he only submitted four more applications (in addition to a -denied - SCEA).</p>

51

<p>Thanks Marilyn for helpful information. We too have been saving for college since birth and are in okay shape, but don't want to be only ones paying the "sticker" price if everyone else is negotiating for a better deal.<br>
Does anyone know if variables like cost of living and lack of a pension figure into the equation at all? A family income of, say, $100,000 may seem high in some parts of the country, but doesn't go anywhere near as far as it would in others.</p>

52

<p>cost of living didn't make a difference really to our EFC, but some schools may consider it.
Ditto with retirement-
money put into retirement accounts isn't generally counted, except in the year that it is earned from income.
Schools do ( private) often have their own forms and can tweak them depending on how much money they have & how much they want you.
Some schools rarely give great aid( NYU)- others often do-(Colgate)
I know many kids who are paying full tuition( Princeton & Oberlin), but there are also ways to reduce costs without the schools help.</p>

53

<p>I too commend Chyea as a student who is taking the initiative to look for ways to reduce the cost for her parents. Too many kids just take what comes down the line. As a parent, I take the blame for not getting them more proactive. </p>

<p>Nothing wrong with looking for ways to reduce college cost or any costs, for that matter. Smart, if you ask me. Nothing wrong with wanting to go to a highly selective college either, especially if you meet the criterion. Doesn't mean you'll get there, and you can do as well anywhere if you have the gumption. And from the sound of your posts, you have the gumption. Congrats to your parents for raising such a responsible, motivated person.</p>

54

<p>Chyea - </p>

<p>Have you discussed with your parents how much of the family income is available to pay tuition, or better yet, a loan repayment schedule for tuition? This is a family decision and you guys need to start planning now with a financial chart and some advice from one or more banks or private lenders to get some parameters of what you can afford and are willing to do before the finaid letters/packages arrive April 1. You only get to May 1 to respond and one month is too short imo to make a really complicated but well thought out decision.</p>

<p>If as a family newly arrived to a source of good income you haven't had time to accumulate assets/savings to bolster that income, it may be that you are not in a position to write a check for that EFC even if you all agree to pay it. Start looking now at what your loan options are and how much it would take to finance the tuition and what monthly payments you'd be willing to accept.</p>

<p>Also, don't forget to factor in things like transportation options, how much you could reasonably expect to earn during summers/school terms. One thing that is an option for years of school after freshman year is being a Resident Advisor (RA) at your school in the dorms. My oldest D's school gives free room and board plus a monthly stipend to their RAs. This can take quite a chunk out of the cost of attendance for you after that first year.</p>

55

<p>What the hell? $220k after taxes maybe , but $220k before taxes...I don't think so.</p>

56

<p>You know, I'm in the same boat with income. And we are not rich. My husband, who was blue collar, retired and is receiving a pension. He also took another job, as we can't go without any income. I have been more or less a stay at home mom....meaning, I work temp jobs throughout my kids high school years so that I could be home in summers. Before my husband retired, having pizza one night a week was hard on our budgets. So, right now, we are what alot of people consider "rich"....because of the pension.</p>

<p>We have five drivers, and three cars. Our luxury car is a Toyota Camry, that is three years old. My son's car is over 10 years old, and the other teens share my old mini-van. Do you know what it is like for them to pull up to the high school driving that? Yet, our EFC is somewhere in the $50s too. When you think of our income, we too, pay about 25% right off the top in taxes. since we live in the north east, our real estate taxes are $12 thousand dollars.....and we pay our own garbage, sewar, etc. etc.</p>

<p>Dinners out? With the kids, it was only on birthdays, and it was a treat to go to TGIF or Red Lobster. </p>

<p>So, those of you who are being mean, think twice. My son's schooll is $40,000 a year, and the next kids will probably at least $16K a year, but more realistically, in the $25K range. I would be grateful for a $3K or so bump from a school, but I know it's not going to happen. I'm not complaining, I'm just saying that I am living my dream by sending my kids to school (husband and I did college part time and neither graduated), and I don't appreciate anyone knocking me for being "rich" because our income is high. It is all relavant.</p>

<p>And to those of you who live on $35K a year, I am just curious as to what your property taxes are, and how much car insurance you pay per car?
Also, what would a 4 bedroom 30 year old house cost in your neighborhood?</p>

<p>See where I am getting at with it being all relavant? You may be living in a fancy McMansion that cost $225K, while I couldn't even afford to buy my own house now.................</p>

57

<p>My son's car is over 10 years old, and the other teens share my old mini-van. Do you know what it is like for them to pull up to the high school driving that?</p>

<p>You are kidding right?
How can kids afford to pay for gas let alone a car?
My D is 24 and she didn't drive a car to high school, she carpooled , took the public bus or I drove her.
She wasn't traumatized, really :)
My 16 year old also either takes public transportation or I drive her.
We can't afford to have any extra vehicles or insure any extra drivers.
We also made the choice to live where there is at least some public transport or biking or walking is a choice.
I don't see people being mean, but we all make choices, some more informed than others.
Living with the consequences of choices is just part of life ;)</p>

58

<p>"My son's car is over 10 years old, and the other teens share my old mini-van. Do you know what it is like for them to pull up to the high school driving that?"</p>

<p>??? My car is about 14 years old, husband's is a Windstar van that's about 12- years- old. S uses my car, a Sable, to go to work, and used to drive it to high school when I didn't need it. Some of the kids in the h.s. had some very fancy cars including one who had a Hummer. S never expressed embarassment about what he drives. He did express surprise that a classmate would want a Hummer considering the environmental impact of such cars.</p>

<p>Husband and I share the van. Husband, however, tends to ride his bicycle the 10 mile roundtrip to the college where he teaches. Husband's boss, the dean, has a Mercedes. Doesn't bother my husband at all that my husband is driving a van or taking a bicycle when many other faculty members have fancier modes of transportation.</p>

<p>I didn't have my first car until I was 24: It was a Datsun B210, which I bought myself after checking Consumer Reports about price, cost of repairs, and gas.</p>

<p>"Also, what would a 4 bedroom 30 year old house cost in your neighborhood?"</p>

<p>Most of us probably live in far more house than we lived in growing up even if we are of an equivalent socioeconomic class to how we grew up. Back in the old days when most of us were young, the average house size was about 1,200 square feet, and it was routine for kids of the same gender to share bedrooms. Most houses had just one bathroom. Most families had at least 3 kids in a home that probably had just 3 bedrooms, max. </p>

<p>What most of us consider as necessary house space now would have been considered very luxurious back then. Most families when we were growing up also had just one car that was shared by everyone.</p>

59

<p>We are another "top 5%" income family with an EFC >$50K. D. can attend our flagship state U (she's in; still waiting to hear about whether she's into the honors program) and likely get some merit money if she gets into the honors program which will further reduce the out of pocket cost, which is already only around $20K including room and board. </p>

<p>Should she pay over twice that much for a top 20 school? HOw about a top 10? She has to decide. We told her we'd cover 100% of the in state school, anything beyond that is up to her. She has a trust that will fully fund almost anywhere, so if she opts for a private school she's going to start out in life as a broke new graduate...which from what I can tell is miles ahead of kids who start out in the hole.</p>

<p>If your child were in this situation, would you advise them to put all their chips on red and go for the best school they can get into regardless of cost, or go for the well respected and excellent state school and start out in life with a big cushion?</p>

<p>I don't think there's any right or wrong answer--I'm curious though what others think.</p>

60

<p>Mombot,
I'd tell my kid to figure out their priorities and values, and then make their decision based on that. I would help my student consider the pros and cons of each choice, but I wouldn't personally lean toward either choice because what's best depends so much on the individual involved.</p>

<p>Either choice could be a good one. It really depends upon what's most important to the student.</p>