<p>man, I wish I lived in CA, Mich, VA, or NC where they have top-notch public schools</p>
<p>NJ kinda sucks in that department...rutgers and TCNJ are good...but still not that high</p>
<p>One scenario where high income does not deserve high EFC.</p>
<p>Considered someone who has been unemployed/underemployed for a few years. Fortunately he had saving in term of stock investment that had greatly appreciated. He depends on selling his stock to pay for living expense and high medical bill (remember health insurance is tied to employment). So he has a lot of capital gain and hence high EFC. But in reality he has no income and is just selling off his asset, which cannot last for ever. In this case high EFC is not deserved.</p>
<p>In another scenario, there are two families with the same moderate income. The first family lives like described in "the millionaire next door" and saved up quite a nest egg by frugal living. His kid would have a high EFC because of high asset, this is not unreasonable since he can afford it. The second family drive fancy car, take exotic vacation and eat out frequently in fancy restarurant, probably financed with his credit card. Obviously he has no saving. With no asset and moderate income his kid has a low EFC. In a sense his fancy living is subsided by us and the first family. </p>
<p>On the other hand, I don't think these problems can be avoided. In the first scenario he may be able to explain his situation.</p>
<p>There are many reasons why a high income does not "deserve" a high EFC. There are many hardship situations that are not covered by the financial aid process where a family may have to weigh their moral obigations and do what is right for them. The methodology FAFSA and PROFILE use are no secrets, and anybody can run numbers through calculators and see what the results are for them, and what can make a difference. Just as we know the consequences of spending money on various things rather than saving.</p>
<p>We have been putting aside money for our childrens' educations for the last 10 years or more, and have a decent amount saved. The two-family scenario mentioned by bomgeedad is indeed frustrating for "saver" families, but as he said, it's hard to avoid. If we had it to do over we'd do the same thing again. We'd rather have that money there for education and risk less in FA than not have it there at all. Plus there are always Unknowns and What-Ifs lurking.</p>
<p>bomgeedad, the example you gave about the capital gains would fall under "Professional Judgment" provisions and many colleges would disregard or discount the capital gain. The FAFSA calculation relies mostly on income, not assets -- so in your example of the frugal vs. high-spending family with identical incomes, the frugal family would need a significant nest-egg to make a big difference -- for example, if they had $300K in savings (more than enough to pay the full cost of 4 years of college) -- their EFC would only go up by about around $15K -- a significant amount, but if their income was modest they would still qualify for grants & loans at private colleges. I think a system that disregards almost 95% of parental assets can hardly be described as unduly discriminating against the family who saves. </p>
<p>I've been over the numbers again and again. In most circumstance, the more money a family earns or saves, the better off they are. I have worked to increase my income this past year even though it means my daughter's need-based grant goes down for next year -- A person who has 100,000 and spends $20,000 is financially better of than a person who has $50K and spends $10K, even though they have spent twice as much. It's not how much you spend; it's how much you have left over in the end. $80K is better than $40K.</p>
<p>I just don't understand why people spend massive amounts of money ($40k+/year) to send their kids to a liberal arts college. Wouldn't a state school be a lot cheaper and offer the same kind of education? Seems to me the private school would only make sense financially if you got a lot of aid to cut down the cost of attendance about half. Though from what I've read on this board, it's very hard to get that type of aid package unless you're in the right income bracket and have a kid with stellar grades and ECs.</p>
<p>Personally, I'm 26 now and never had a prayer at any private school or even any state school other than my local community college. My parents made too much money, but were in loads of debt that the Fafsa didn't even consider. Even though I moved out on my own at the age of 17 and supported myself entirely, my parents income was still used to calculate my EFC. I was essentially screwed over by all financial aid policies and got turned off from higher education... So for many years I have gone part time to a community college on and off racking up the credits slowly...</p>
<p>I'm now 26 and finally able to go back to college after saving 60k by myself. Sometimes I really wonder what my life would of been like had I been able to declare myself as independent and was given the ability to attend college at a younger age. Some of the regulations are just horrible for those of us in special situations at a younger age. I was forced to be an adult much younger than most, yet I wasn't considered one by the government.</p>
<p>I think if the government is going to make parents responsible for paying tuition until the age of 24, then I think the legal age of "adult" should be moved to the age of 24 also. If you can join the army and fire a weapon at 18, then you should be able to declare yourself independent if you can prove you really are independent.</p>
<p>Dew`</p>
<p>No, you will not get the same education, in general, at a liberal arts college vs. your state university.</p>
<p>unregistered,</p>
<p>Is that supposed extra level of education at a LAC worth $40k a YEAR or 160k over 4 years? You can buy large houses in some states with that kind of money. Some people retire on 160k.</p>
<p>In my opinion, it's a gross waste of money. If you can get a scholarship and a lot of aid, I say by all means goto a nice private LAC, but otherwise, put the money in a nice investment and watch it grow.</p>
<p>Dew`</p>
<p>dew, that's fine for you. Not everyone learns in the same way. Not all state schools are good. And if you're talking OOS publics, the differences in tuition become much smaller. The good publics know that they are in demand, and charge OOS students through the nose; then add on transportation costs, and the incremental costs between private and public is significantly smaller.</p>
<p>(By the way, unless the public school is free, the difference is not $40K/year. It's the difference between the costs of public and the costs of private, which is usually closer to $25-30K/year.)</p>
<p>For our family, the answer is yes, the incremental cost is worth it. My d would certainly get a decent education at a state school, but she would not be happy there. She would have to fight the prevailing attitude of the school to find a small "niche", and she would have to work very hard to get the kind of teaching that her learning style (not disability; just the way she likes and is easiest for her to learn) needs. That would be on top of the work she would have to do to get the education. I have no doubt that she will get a better education, more easily, at a smaller liberal arts college. And the choice that our family has made is that this incrementally better education is worth the incremental increase in cost. Other families make different choices. It is not for you to determine that our choice is wrong. Our child's education is the best "investment" we can make, and I look forward to "watching it grow."</p>
<p>for a family whose EFC is roughly equivalent to costs of an instate university, a private LAC that meets need, may be a much better deal.
Same college costs, but instead of an entering class of 4800 and classes of 200, an entering class of 400 and classes of 20.
Students that can benefit from that intensity, may really thrive at a LAC.</p>
<p>Last two posts make two very important points!
It's definitely not a black or white issue, and the difference between private vs. public or no aid vs. some merit aid is not always so extreme. You need to do your homework (early) for the schools your child is interesteed in.</p>
<p>"unregistered,</p>
<p>Is that supposed extra level of education at a LAC worth $40k a YEAR or 160k over 4 years? You can buy large houses in some states with that kind of money. Some people retire on 160k.</p>
<p>In my opinion, it's a gross waste of money. If you can get a scholarship and a lot of aid, I say by all means goto a nice private LAC, but otherwise, put the money in a nice investment and watch it grow.</p>
<p>Dew"</p>
<p>I think it depends on how much money you have. Would it be worth it for my family, if we didn't get great financial aid? Of course not - it would be impossibly unaffordable. For people who can afford it? I think you go where the children will be happiest, that's priceless.</p>
<p>I was just wondering why you were picking on LACs. The cost to attend LACs is generally equivalent to the cost of attending big name private universities, and, at the risk of grossly overgeneralizing, the LAC is going to provide the most unique educational experience of the three. Why single out LACs?</p>
<p>Amherst College told us that it costs something close to $79,000 every year for them to educate each student. They're putting a lot into our educations, and it shows.</p>
<p>^So Amerst gets donations to cover the extra $35000?</p>
<p>Dew,
It all depends on the school. I know someone for whom it was cheaper to attend Wharton than SUNY-Binghamton (as an in-state student).</p>
<p>donations also may go into an endowment fund, which can provide interest.
When you have lots of $$$ the monthly interest can be quite high.
Amherst ranked 49 in the top 50 of size of university endowments.
Considering that they are a relatively small school, without a medical or law school attached,( or major athletic teams that attract alumni funds)
that is a very good ranking
<a href="http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0112636.html%5B/url%5D">http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0112636.html</a></p>
<p>^Thanks for the insight.</p>
<br>
<blockquote> <blockquote> <blockquote> <p>You can be thankful for what you have and complain. I think the cost of college has spiraled to a point that it is something to complain about. <<<</p> </blockquote> </blockquote> </blockquote>
<br>
<p>This is absolutely true. The cost of private school tuition has increased at a rate that has far outpaced most other measures. Presidents of some colleges are now getting salariies that are right up there with corporate executives. Tuitions have spiralled upward, thanks in large part to the government subsidized loans that are allowing students to pay them. This is a complicated issue that really bear some serious analysis... </p>
<p>Anyone read any good articles on why college costs so much and why even families with high incomes feel hard-pressed to afford it.</p>
<p>Yeah, the rest is covered by them automatically for every student. I have a book that gives the financial breakdown (where that money comes from, how it is used to fund our educations, etc) but I don't have it on-hand right now. I know that Williams provided similar numbers, though.</p>
<p>
[quote]
It all depends on the school. I know someone for whom it was cheaper to attend Wharton than SUNY-Binghamton (as an in-state student).
[/quote]
</p>
<p>It certainly was the case in our house where it is less expensive for D to attend Dartmouth than it was for us to be full freight payers and get non FA at SUNY.</p>
<p>Some kids just do better at a small college than a large one. It does not mean you should have to pay $40K+ a year for the smaller school. SUNY has a number of smaller colleges, in additon to their universities. St Mary'sCollege, UNCAsheville, the small state schools in PA, Mary Washington in Va, York, Grove City, privates in PA are all examples of smaller schools that have lower costs, particularly the state ones for instate families. It's all a matter of preference. There are kids who would have a harder time, particularly at schools like Ohio state where many of the freshman classes are large lecture halls.</p>