Efc?

<p>You will probably have a starting salary in the mid to high 50's right out of college. Your salary will increase, but don't expect to be hired at 69k with just a bachelor's degree.</p>

<p>Thats close enough lol</p>

<p>If you want to see what the salaries are like, go to <a href="http://www.payscale.com%5B/url%5D"&gt;www.payscale.com&lt;/a> and search for mechanical engineers. The salaries vary by city (as opposed to things like where you went to school) from a low of $57k in Chicago to a high of $67k in Detroit. I did not narrow the search, but I think you might get more if you have a masters, which of course means more school and possibly more debt.</p>

<p>One thing to look for is a school that has a co-op program. Not only can you get a lot of experience while going to school, you get paid, which helps with the tuition, and if you co-op with the same company long enough, you may qualify for their tuition reimbursement plan which could reduce your costs even more. You might even get a job offer for after graduation.</p>

<p>At D2's school (she's in engineering), we heard of one co-op student whose employer offered them a job, is giving them money for their senior year, and is also offering to pay for their masters degree. Pretty sweet imo.</p>

<p>This site works a little better for careers and gives hiring trends and other useful info. It's <a href="http://www.collegegrad.com/careers%5B/url%5D"&gt;www.collegegrad.com/careers&lt;/a>. For mechanical engr's it shows average starting salaries of $48k for bachelor's, $54k for Masters, and $69k for PHD candidates. Hope this helps.</p>

<p>Actually, the EFC is the same no matter how many kids are in college. I think it works this way. I'll know in a couple of years when I have two in at once. However, you spilt the EFC among the number in college. For example, with an EFC of $50,000 and 2 in college. The family would be expected to contribute $25,000 to each. Thus if the cost for child 1 to attend is $10,000, you would not qualify for aid for that child. However, if child 2 went to a more expensive college that cost $30,000, then you would qualify for aid at that school. There are some other considerations, such as the child's income and assets that would probably be different. I don't know how much that would affect the calcuations.</p>

<p>It affects it a lot alimack. For instance my Daughter's (who will be a freshman) EFC is low enough she will qualify for a Pell grant plus, I think, ACG. My son, who went to college for a year then took a year off and worked before realising minimum wage is not the way to go, will have a much higher EFC because of his earnings even though they all went to pay rent and food. He will get little aid.</p>

<p>That's almost correct, allimack.</p>

<p>Actually, it's the parental contribution to the EFC that remains the same whether you have one, or two kids in college. So the parental contribution to the EFC gets halved for each individual student, and then each student's contribution to the EFC gets added to that.</p>

<p>So if there's no significant contribution to the EFC from student income/assets, the total EFC will remain the same when the second child enters college, as you indicated. Each student's EFC will differ somewhat depending on their income and assets.</p>

<p>I did not read the full thread, just to about page three, and i am amazed again that there are people that think 100k+ is not a lot of money, or that there are people making attempts at avoiding / or not wanting to put forth their savings for their childrens education.</p>

<p>I am one of those lucky few with a 0 efc, because my family has NO MONEY. My mom is on SSI... .. no dad in the picture. So you can calculate yourself how much we have every year ....... about 10k (ssi is about 800 / month). </p>

<p>I got into UCLA and chose to attend, even though it meant i had to move out. People have no idea what it is like to NOT be able to phone home for money. I never ask, but my mom, from the very little money that she has, finds a way to give me 100 dollars here and there. </p>

<p>How can people who make in excess of 100k+ not scrape up enough for their childrens educations? i just do not understand that. </p>

<p>My mom would have sold whatever property she had, and whatever car she had if she had to in order to send me to college... ... granted this would require me to choose a college with acceptable cost..... (like a state school)</p>

<p>I have 20k in cc debt, 4k in student loans, a job, and carry 18/units ....... and you know what, being poor sucks............. and i would much rather have my mom be poor by paying in full from an income of 100k than being poor due to having an income of less than 20k. One can live very comfortably at 60k a year, .......... even having a family .. your needs are met.......... at 20k/ 10k..... you have nothing.</p>

<p>I have some acquintances back in China who went to college only after their family decided to eat only two meals a day. I've also heard a rumor that one of them has a sister who went to work as a prostitue to help pay for his college. </p>

<p>Really, there's always somebody who has it worse than you.</p>

<p>


FAFSA doesn't ask; but the colleges DO ask. </p>

<p>The FAFSA doesn't ask the costs of any college, whether there is 1 kid or 10 -- it just calculates EFC. So an EFC can be more or less than the actual cost of college attendance. If your EFC is $20,000 and your kid chooses to attend a state college with total costs of $12,000, no one asks you to pay the $8000 difference between what the college actually costs and FAFSA said you could pay. </p>

<p>The FAFSA does not entitle students to any aid other than subsidized Stafford & Perkins loans, work study, and/or Pell & ACG grants. The grants are only a few thousand dollars at most -- not nearly enough to pay for a private college. Colleges will give grant money out of their own institutional funds.</p>

<p>If there are two or more kids in college simultaneously, and the kid is getting need based aid, then generally the college asks for proof of enrollment from the siblings. The proof of enrollment form is supposed to be filled out by the financial aid office of the other college and asks for cost of attendance. When that is in hand, the college may increase the student's need-based aid, but they don't necessarily reduce the expected family contribution by half or anything close.</p>

<p>Here is how it worked for me. My daughter goes to a private college that promises to meet 100% need (based on their determination, not FAFSA) and was given financial aid which included a grant. My son is at a CSU, paying in-state rates, and he is not eligible for financial aid because, like swimcatsmom, he was working full time the year prior to enrolling and his earnings and savings gave him an EFC in excess of the costs of his college. In September, I mailed him the form that Barnard wanted, and he took it to his college financial aid office. </p>

<p>The costs of attendance at my son's CSU are $14,000. After my daughter's college received the form with that number, they increased my daughter's grant by about $3500. </p>

<p>Now it happened that with my son's enrollment, on the FAFSA my daughter was made Pell-eligible - so my daughter's college arranged a Pell grant and an ACG grant. However, the college financial aid did not meet the FAFSA EFC that is used to calculate Pell-eligibility -- instead, they expected us to pay about $10-$12K in excess of that amount. </p>

<p>I don't know what your friend's situation is, but anyone who thinks that having 2 kids simultaneously in college means that the parents will get huge benefits really hasn't faced the reality that MOST colleges do NOT meet 100% of need as specified on the FAFSA, and the private colleges can and do ask for all kinds of information above and beyond the FAFSA.</p>

<p>For those who are or see families that struggle with a low EFC and a goal/dream of sending their kids to college, it is eye opening. In the context of the problems we have in the world, a college education is not the most important thing either, so there are other much more urgent issues than not having money to go to college. Even within the world of education, there are more crucial issues such as providing a safe harbor within and around a school, good education to the younger children including those who have challenges.<br>
Within a family, I feel that each member's needs should be addressed. I would not endanger any of my family member's health for a college education, from the little one who may not go so far in education to the elderly grandmothers coping with their stage in life. I hope I have instilled these values into my kids so that they would not want their father adding stress to his already stressful job, or having me work to a point that is harmful to me. We have some family goals that are more important than a college education. I want my family in SAFE housing. I want them HEALTHY. There is a quality of life issue here. I want safe, reliable cars. When my family members need medical care, I want them to get top care in that area, particularly since our family genetics clearly has some risk factor that can mean life or death, and medical issues in between. I want them to be honest. To pay for college for one "promising" kid is a poor choice if it endangers the lives of others in the family. We are facing these issues right now personally. We have two grandmothers who are entering those years when they are having needs that cost more than they can pay. That is going to be an issue in our family that affects college costs. We have some potential health issues, needs issues for other members of the family. For us to move out of our house, which would be a major source of money, would mean adversely impacting a number of members of the family. These are decisions that each family has to make. I have no respect, much less awe for families foolish enough to hurt other members so that their "chose one" can go to college or to a more elite college. THer are other more important values in life. As a college student, I worked myself to the bone, took out more loans than I should have, and worked hard and lived poorly for many years thereafter. I would not have wanted my parents or siblings to have suffered a low quality of living for me to go to college. To cut meals (if they are below the necessity level; some of us can cut them and would be healthier for it), work as a prostitute, have other members living in squalor is unacceptable to me. </p>

<p>As for complaining about the cuts in standards of living, of course there is complaining. My brother who has dedicated more of his life in service than most whole famiiies, has spent time in 3rd world countries where people are starving around him. And in such an environment, there are complaints about the taste, and quality food among those helping these people. Yes, he complained even though he was a rajah compared to most. He also suffered illnesses because of the hygiene, healthcare and food there, and, YES, he COMPLAINED even though he was FAR, FAR better off in things essential to life itself than most others around him. So, of course, people complain about college costs. Same brother will complain too when the time comes for him to pay for his kids as I complain. What is your problem about complaining when you are complaining as well, and there are many who has it worse than you? Where do you draw the line?</p>

<p>Well, I draw it at the point of dishonesty, illegal acts, harmful acts to other, certainly not at complaining. I have more respect for the family using it s funds to provide wisely for itself and ALL members, and having limits for college money AND COMPLAINING, than the family having old grandma eating inadequately, other family members getting subpar medical care, the slow learning member of the family, NOT getting some help, the father adding to the chances of a stroke or heartache because he is holding 2 jobs, and a family member selling computers or services off the books, illegally to pay for college costs. I don't care if the recipient of all of this is going to Harvard. It is not right.</p>

<p>Also I don't see this thing about cars. To me, it is important, crucial to have a safe car. A reliable car. When I worked, I had an employee who was always late because she had car trouble. She also had a kid in college, two kids in private school, which were her reasons for not having a reliable car. She was once stuck on a dangerous roadside at night with a young kid because her car broke down. She could not afford a different car. Well, she was a good enough employee, not to fire her even though the car caused problems for us at work. But when it came time for her review, she sure as heck did not get high points mainlly because of her car problems. As far as I am concerned, since her income was by far the prime source of money for her family, she needed to invest in a decent car. When the reliability and safety of your car threatens your own reliability and safety, it is time to get a new car. I would not be proud of owning a klunker or having your kid have one if it is an issue in terms of reliability and safety. My husband's cousin drove my mother in law here, and his car broke down. She has medical issues, and being stuck in the car was a problem. She needed a restroom, and of course could not get to one. IT was cold, and rainy, and she was ill for two weeks after that. They also missed an event and caused stress for everyone who expected them there. I am not impressed that he is driving an unreliable car to save money, and neither is anyone else.</p>

<p>thanks jym626 - we never applied for aid for our oldest, thinking we earned too much, and are paying full freight ($40K+) at his private LAC. We'd like our younger child to also go to a private school and are willing to make whatever "sacrifices" to allow her to do so. We just want to be as financially savvy about this as possible -- with no intention of being in anyway underhanded or deceptive -- so we can continue to responsibly save for our retirement.</p>

<p>and just for the sake of all those who are "morallizing" and berating high-income people as whiners: my husand and i both paid for our own college educations and vowed early on to not saddle our kids with the kind of loans we had. we've worked hard to be able to do so, and both of them have heard ad infinitum how fortunate they are.</p>

<p>Amen to that! Cpt and NJMom, you are both right on. I don't understand the deal about the cars either. We always get the extended warranty on our new cars (7years/100,000 miles) and then drive them 'til the warranty runs out. I kept one van to 116,000 miles and it was leaving me stranded on a weekly basis. Every month I paid from $200 -$300 to the mechanic AND got left stranded AND had no car while in the shop AND our town has no real public transportation. Why not just pay a car note on a new (read gently used, new to me) van that WORKS.</p>

<p>As for the loans, I read an article in the newspaper recently that colleges are starting to see a new disturbing trend of parents applying for finaid for their kids where the parents haven't finished paying off their own college loans! The article interviewed a couple in Pittsburgh with two ivy league degrees who were in public interest jobs as social workers or something (don't flame me, please), but who had just refinanced their loans over and over and now their kid was going to college and mom and dad STILL had student loan debt! The article said the colleges don't have a procedure in place for this, or maybe fafsa or whatever doesn't have a rule to cover this situation, but anyway, I personally can't see how a family can justifiably do this sort of thing to themselves when there are so many other alternatives. Honestly, just run the numbers in that finaid calculator and see if you really think paying $200,000 you don't have for college makes sense.</p>

<p>"Also I don't see this thing about cars. To me, it is important, crucial to have a safe car. A reliable car. "</p>

<p>While my cars are about 12 and 14 years old, they have very low mileage because we live in a small city and don't drive them that much. My car is about 14-years-old and has less than 60,000 miles on it. S's roundtrip to work is about 8 miles, all through city traffic that's not particularly congested. Husband's work roundtrip is 10 miles, city traffic. If I get the job that I've been promised, it would be a 6 mile roundtrip commute that's also on the way to either my husband or S's job.</p>

<p>We also keep the cars in good repair. Having an old car doesn't mean one has a dangerous clunker.</p>

<p>NSM, hope you did not think I was pointing a finger at you. It's not the age or even the mileage on a car that is the issue. It is the safety and reliability factor. If you are unlucky enough to buy a new lemon that is causing issues, it is more of a problem than an old car with many miles on it. I have kept our cars for over 200,000 miles and 100,000 miles, before they reached that unreliable point. I got rid of a car at 50,000 miles when I realized that it was not right for us; dangerous since I was not able to master driving it as well as I could smaller cars, and expensive as it was a gas guzzler and the prices were going up. In our family, given the types we are, mechanically challenged, and because of the lack of public transportation nearby, a reliable car is important. Because I car pool and have others in the car and drive alot and am in the NE, a safe car for all types of weather is a wise choice. Safety and reliability are what I think matters in a car.</p>

<p>Oh, cpt, now I get it. Thanks for the explanation. I agree: safety, reliability are paramount (within the constraints of my budget).</p>

<p>I'm meaning safe and reliable too. Once when I was single, I had a 2yr old Toyota that developed an ignition problem. The mechanics could never find anything wrong with it; always worked fine for them. But it kept not starting for me. I got scared of when the next time or place I'd be and the car wouldn't start, so I traded it in (praying the whole time it would start for the guy appraising the trade). It really irked me getting rid of a 2 yr old car, but with electrical problems, it has to be not working for the mechanic or he can't locate the wires that need fixing.</p>

<p>Its a bit comical to see people complaining about paying for college on 200K per year. Our income is 200K, we live in a high cost area (southwestern ct) and pay for my daughter's education > 40k per year and am still funding my retirement. People need to learn to cut back on "wants" vs "needs". I drive a car with 265,000 miles on it. My daughter didn't have her own car - why should she? Anybody hear of taking the school bus?? People with high incomes should stop complaining and be thankful for what you have. I don't know if this has been said before - but lots of scholarships require the fafsa to be filled out even if you don't qualify for aid.</p>

<p>You can be thankful for what you have and complain. I think the cost of college has spiraled to a point that it is something to complain about. People complain about all sorts of thing, particularly costs.</p>