Effect of College on Socioeconomic Expectations

You must live in an area with public transportation. In my area, almost all kids get a car (used or new) when they turn 16. It’s freedom for the parents.

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Yup, after having to get up wayyyyy too early to drop off for early chorus/orchestra lessons, leaving work during the day to do pick-ups - and then again to shuttle to clubs/sports, group projects, or just social stuff - and then staying late to catch up with work, I gladly “gifted myself” a car for my daughter. :wink:

Was ready to get my life (and blood-pressure) back.

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Our son encountered real wealth at Choate and honor and prestige at West Point, so he’s been immersed in a world far more rarified than ours since he was 14. To the OP, our son’s wealth influence occurred prior to college, but the question is still relevant: Did living among so many elite change him in any way? The answer, of course, is “yes” as any new experience must, but the more relevant question is “how?”

Many of the responses here focus on concerns about non-wealthy students feeling intimidated by or uncomfortable in these pools. We never heard our son talk about this either in regard to himself or other students. What he DID mention often was the kindness and collaboration among all students, the lack of bullying (which he experienced in our local school system), and the fact that you’d never know the students from the wealthiest families by looking at them. I believe many of those students found their family names/circumstances more burden than blessing and just wanted to fit in as “regular” kids. On the other end, if you looked like you were seeking status, that was a sure indicator you didn’t have it, and these kids were savvy enough to make this distinction and avoid telling behaviors.

But, boarding school differs from college in significant ways: the student bodies are smaller (Choate is around 850 students), the incoming classes are highly curated for diversity at all levels and mined for traits that correlate with independence, confidence, and academic success, and the school itself is quite aware of its history and privilege and makes a concerted effort to ensure that all students are able to participate fully in the life of the school. For instance, Choate has a “Beyond the Classroom” fund to provide students with things and experiences not covered by tuition/financial aid, and the school culture and activities are designed to ensure that no one is left out or falls between the cracks.

But, do students seek this help?

We certainly taught our son to advocate for himself in general, but boarding school took it to another level. The school expected students to seek help proactively, whether in the classroom or out, for academics, sports, and health. Teachers, advisors, and coaches impressed on students that seeking help was a sign of strength, not weakness, and that the ability to advocate for one’s needs was as important as any classroom lesson. The school also made that help clear and readily available. By senior year, these students were polished, confident in their skins, and expert at navigating their worlds. So, by the time they entered their various colleges, they were the students @blossom describes.

I am not posting this unaware that wealth itself was behind all these lessons our son learned even if that wealth did not come from his parents. A high school with close to a half-billion dollar endowment has the ability to provide immersive lessons beyond the classroom and help its students understand where and how they fit in the larger world and what responsibility the privilege of that education requires. I will never forget the headmaster’s speech during revisit days warning potential new students that they had better not dare consume a quarter of a million dollars of this world’s goods (education) without considering the weight of that consumption. This message—“To him whom much has been given, much is expected”—was part of the school culture, and we think our son’s choice of military service was partly a response to that ever-present message.

So, yes, living among the privilege, opportunities, and expectations of wealth did influence our son deeply, but his response to it was one of humility, service, and deferred gratification, not any form of consumerism.

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After reading more low income students’ experiences at schools with a large wealthy population, I’ve come to the conclusion that I was indeed surrounded by “mean girls”! Others have expressed feeling awkward and/or left out for not being able to join in certain activities, etc, but I seem to be the only one that was openly mocked. (And just to be clear, this was only a particular cohort…my friends there also came from wealthy families but they didn’t treat me differently because I didn’t.)

There also seems to be a theme that wealth disparities don’t matter much at the very tippy top schools. My LAC was selective but not a tippy top; this was pre-USNews rankings, but I’d guess it was in the next tier down. I have no idea if that LAC has a similar vibe these days. It does get recommended on this site. And again, my university (which was highly ranked) experience was completely different.

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You are funny. Zero public transportation. I live on a farm in a very rural area. Still no cars for the kids! (They do borrow mine when they are home).

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I did that for many years while both kids were in public school. In fact s19 still only has a learner’s permit due to Covid disruptions. He commutes to an adjacent city for university everyday so that means I’m running him back and forth 20 minutes+ each way to the commuter train/bus station twice a day.

I’m still amazed when I hear how many parents on this board have kids who had their own cars in high school. We’re not uber wealthy but comfortably off. My kids went to solid middle income high schools. Very few kids drove and of those that did most of them were driving a parent’s car. Everyone else walked, rode their bikes, or took the bus (public transit or school bus). They certainly didn’t have their own.

My car is 13 years old and dh bought a new one a couple of years ago. The kids get cars when they can buy their own.

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I get that. In our case, walking was prohibitive (would have had to leave the house by 6:20 AM and walk miles in the dark), biking was too dangerous (traffic intensity, and again darkness), and bus didn’t apply because daily lessons were BEFORE school started, and lasted until AFTER school dismissed.

Otherwise, I agree, she could have borrowed my car.

In our case, she was already up until way after midnight working on essays, studying up for all the AP classes, and writing her own test prep guides - operating on 5 hours sleep. Then certifying and volunteering as an EMT inbetween.

The last thing I wanted was for her to give up that intensity (or the unpaid volunteer job) for the questionable benefit of a minimum wage burger-joint job to “earn” the car. So as long as I kept seeing 4.0s, I was willing to “pay” the equivalent.

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Would be nice if we just had better public transportation like Europe and Asia- would make things easier and be better for the environment.

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Absolutely, once in college in Manhattan, she got an auto-refilling MetroCard and used the subway, bus and train everywhere - and actually very much preferred that.

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I don’t know how representative, or if sensibilities changed over time, but at my daughter’s very selective LAC, I got the sense that there was a lot of awareness and activism instead - from lobbying for course materials that could be accessed online, to students organizing “dining dollars” campaigns so that unused balances benefited low-income students with food insecurity, etc.

No blame for being wealthy (there was plenty around), but it was a cooperative environment, and I suspect “mean girls” would have been ostracized.

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My question was more focused on FGLI students, rather than middle class and more privileged students (like my own kids), who were indeed taught by us, their parents, to advocate for themselves. It’s hard for me to picture students, like the one I work with, who is growing up in a house where English is a distant second language (and Spanish is not the first language), to whom I have to explain what the differences are between living on campus, off campus and being a commuter who lives at home. I wonder how likely they are to seek the help that is available to them.

I think it’s great that HYPS and other elite privates offer this aid and these services, but I’m curious if and how often the FGLI kids actually ask for a plane ticket home or money for a class trip without feeling ashamed for having to do so. Again, I have no experience with these types of colleges - maybe they assign a special advisor who acts as a liaison between the student and the college with the intent of making sure the student is aware of everything that is available to them.

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That’s interesting, and it sounds like a welcoming place. I suspect that kind of awareness and activism has increased at very many schools. Pretty much all the young people I know, even the ones from wealthy suburban bubbles, are very aware and not judgemental at all about different SES situations.

My experience at the LAC is from the mid-70s. I don’t know about income diversity, but I know there is more racial/ethnic and especially geographic diversity at that school now than there was when I was there, and that alone has to make a difference. Less chance the “mean girls”, if there are any, can form a majority clique that influences the vibe.

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Not sure if we’re committing a soon-untolerable topic drift? But, taking my chances… :smirk:

At Columbia U, 17% or so identify as FG/LI - and there is indeed an active outreach about available resources, e.g.:

https://bwog.com/2019/08/being-fgli-is-hard-here-are-the-resources-you-need-to-know-about/
https://library.columbia.edu/libraries/undergraduate/FLI_partnership_library.html

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At Wesleyan, FGLI is an identity just like, URM, athlete, feminist - you name it - which the kids rally around. There is no end to the activism that surrounds it on campus:
The Wesleyan Argus | WSA Passes Amendment Making FGLI Advisory Board an Auxiliary Committee

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I can only address Yale based on the experience of a close friend.

The Head of the College doesn’t seek out kids who he/she believes may have financial need. The Head of the College meets with small groups during orientation to describe ALL the resources available to ALL students. Some colleges have incredible libraries (in addition to the University-wide libraries); some have gorgeous study spaces; every Head of College sponsors their own teas, debates, private art tours, other cultural opportunities (these used to be the Masters until the nomenclature changed a few years ago). As part of this, students will learn about fellowship opportunities, sponsored travel, research, and discretionary funds. Presumably, the kids who can fund their own travel won’t approach the Head of College to find out if there is help available for an emergency plane ticket home, or a new pair of eyeglasses (not covered by insurance), or any other random expense not covered by financial aid which crops up.

I cannot presume to know if kids feel embarrassed to ask- but as it’s been described to me by a needy student, everyone learns about the funds at the same time, the bar for accessing these funds is low (just go talk to the Head of College- who actually lives with the students in an apartment in the College building) and most students understand that it is a quiet way of leveling the playing field, not a “naming and shaming” vehicle.

At my alma mater there is now tons of support for FGLI students at an institutional level- since Brown doesn’t operate on a college system the way Yale does, and doesn’t have Houses like Harvard and so the need was more top down. The system isn’t perfect, but every month in the alumni magazine there are articles about kids who got university funding for cool internships, incredible research experiences, etc. so it’s clear that the message is getting out- if you need money, come and ask.

How students feel about the system? I’m not privy to that. But it sure would have helped back in the “Scholarship Student” days!

In my spouse’s and my own anecdotal experiences teaching at (and attending) several non-elite schools, there is a socioeconomic difference in which students seek help. This difference may not hold true at elite schools where students know the help is available and are encouraged to use it.

I think part of it may be that the wealthier kids are more used to people helping them throughout life in general. And as mentioned upthread, they are also often explicitly taught to advocate for themselves and to ask for help.

I had an FGLI & minority student who emailed me once asking if she could postpone an exam by 1 week due to a “family emergency”. I could have said “no” or said “yes” and not asked why. I started gently probing to see if she needed more support. I told her that she didn’t need to disclose the nature of the emergency to me, but she should consider contacting the dean of students. I gave her all the contact info and explained that their role is to support her with whatever may help her, and to interface with professors on her behalf. She did contact them. I later learned that both her mother and sister (she lived with them) died unexpectedly within days of each other. With the dean’s guidance and advocacy, she took a much-needed leave of absence. It broke my heart to think that she would have gone through all of that without the (rather meager) support that was available to her.

I myself had no idea, until I read this thread, that elite colleges give students so many different kinds of help.

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Two issues raised on this thread are provocative and personal to me.

The first is the money given to FGLIs and otherwise needy folk for their expenses. Many low-income students at elite schools are smart enough to understand that however generous the support provided, this is still a mechanism to “put people in their place”. One can consult the boxing scene in Ellison’s Invisible Man to understand the basic principle. Either they accept the help with the tacit understanding that they are supposed to use the advantages provided by their elite institution to leverage themselves into a lucrative position in society, or they should feel guilt and shame for asking for the large amount of “help” being granted them. Regardless, they will know that once they graduate from their illustrious institution, they will be solicited with mailings that ask them to contribute money to their institution in the amount of a number of digits that befits a high-paying career, or be shamed for not doing so.

The second has to do with expensive destination weddings, but I think I will remain silent on that issue.

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I expect the trend to increase sticker price faster than inflation for wealthy while increasing FA for lower income has more to do with things like external pressure by various organizations including congress to spend a larger portion of endowment, external pressure to have a better SES and racial diversity among students, truly wanting to have a more diverse student body, and general good publicity than a mechanism to “put people in their place”.

I very much doubt that feeling guilt and shame related to receiving a large financial aid package is the norm. It certainly isn’t the norm among the persons I know well.

USNWR and various other rankings have a category in their ranking formula for percentage giving – not total amount raised. I expect this contributes to why universities often focus on getting a good portion of students to give something, rather than expecting typical graduates to give “in the amount of a number of digits that befits a high-paying career.”

For example, I receive regular mailings/emails and occasional calls asking me to give to the Stanford Fund. These mailings sometimes include statements like “take 5 minutes, give $5 (or more)”, suggesting $5 is an appropriate gift amount. I don’t think shame is common for not giving. According to alumni giving percentage stats, the vast majority of alumni do not give at my college or almost any college. USNWR stats shows only 1 college for which the majority of alumni make financial donations to the college. Colleges that have a relatively large (compared to peers) portion of lower income students at a discounted rate often have lower than typical rates of giving.

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I appreciate the detailed engagement with the issues, and also don’t disagree with the points made. But I think the larger issue is that the elite colleges are trying to score external PR points by admitting low SES, diverse student bodies. Those students make the school look good. But after graduation, the now-alums will get the message that what makes the school happy is their large $ donations, and the peer pressure that comes along with making an appearance on a list of high-tier donors. I certainly got the message loud and clear from my Ivy that it was my financial potential, rather than my intellectual potential or potential for social good, that mattered after graduation. Those other things are fine for show among the students.

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Your posts present an interesting perspective that I have never heard from any low SES students who went to elite schools. I’ll be curious to see if anyone else chimes in.

I’m willing to bet almost every college graduate gets requests for donations from their alma mater. My FGLI friend that I mentioned way above has told me she never donates to the Ivy she attended, even though she’s done extremely well financially. I’m quite sure she doesn’t feel any guilt about it. I get donation requests from my elite public (I’ve never donated and don’t feel guilty) but I also get requests to act as a mentor, publicize internships available at my company, do informational interviews and so on, so I get the sense I’m valued for more than my financial contributions. I don’t know if the same thing happens at other schools.

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