Will taking Calculus Honors instead of AP Calc AB have significant negative consequences in admissions/merit aid for lower T50-ish colleges if I am not applying a STEM major and have max course rigor otherwise?
More background info:
I was initially rejected from taking AP Calculus AB at my high school and have been asked to reapply with an essay and interview if I am still interested. As my test average in honors precal is fairly high (96-97) I believe I am capable; however, I think I may be miserable if I end up taking it - I already struggle with keeping up with the homework load in precal and don’t think I can mentally handle that + twice weekly AP exam study sessions at 6:00 AM in my senior year during football season.
I have taken the hardest class available to me in everything else thus far and have made nothing lower than a B (those B’s being mostly in math courses). I have a 36 ACT. I certainly don’t want to exclude myself from the possibility of a STEM major in the future but will probably apply to college as an economics or business major. I will be prioritizing merit aid in the admissions process and will not be applying anywhere more competitive than Tulane.
My B average in the class due to poor homework grades is what’s keeping me out as of now. 5:30 was a typo, it should be 6:00 AM - but the teacher is serious about everyone getting 5’s and believes the hour-long morning sessions to be beneficial.
I don’t see the point of taking a class that you think would be too much in order to perhaps influence college admissions. What if you don’t do well in it or if the time you need to spend on it causes you to take time away from other courses? This could go badly. I’d just stay with what you have since it seems you are comfortable with it.
I’m also wondering about 5:30 am study sessions. I’ve never heard of such a thing. Your high school requires this?
Also, FWIW, my daughter got into Tulane and she was in regular precalc her senior year (not even honors).
5:30 or 6:00 would make no difference to me; either would be a deal breaker. IMO, Calc AB requires no mandatory sessions outside of class time other than maybe close to the exam, and even then, not at zero dark thirty. If it were me, I’d take a hard pass.
One class is not a make-or-break either way, and no AO is going to scrutinize course choices that closely.
I think that you should be striving to attend a university that is a good fit for you. A great way to do this is to take the classes that make sense for you and participate in the ECs that make sense for you.
I think that Honors Calculus is fine. To me this sounds like the class that makes sense for you. I do not see any reason to take AP Calculus.
By the way, I graduated with a degree in mathematics from MIT. I loved math. For me a 6:00am study class would have been a deal breaker even for a math class. I just would not have done it. One issue is that lack of sleep can negatively affect everything else that you do all day. To me having 6:00am study sessions seems like a really bad idea.
Agree with @DadTwoGirls. I don’t see how a 6:00 am study session would comply with the Vampire-ish circadian rhythm of a teenager. My daughter took a band class at 7:00 am one year and I think the only benefit to her was learning to play her instrument while still asleep.
You may want to try to improve your motivation to do homework, since you need to be more self-motivated in (any) college.
If they are limiting access to AB to students who earned A grades in honors precalculus, it should be nowhere near requiring extra 6am study sessions for students to do well (A in class, 5 on AP test). Seems like the teacher is making extra work that is not really needed.
Seems pretty clear this AP class is the wrong choice for you. Take what’s right for you.
Why would AP exam prep be happening during football season? The exam is in May. You wouldn’t know enough about calculus for exam prep in October/November.
You have a 36 ACT. Assuming good grades and decent rigor you will go to a top 50 (whatever that means) or a solid school for dirt cheap and save your parents hundreds of thousands of dollars.
Control what you can. If you’re not in Calc AB, then you’re not. Don’t dwell on it. Make sure your activities are strong, get a job this summer to pad the resume and get your essays done or at least down the path.
If you find pre-calc challenging, and most of your Bs are in math, you probably should not consider majors which require calculus, and are in general math-heavy, which include business and economics. Is there any specific reason that you are thinking of business or economics?
You’re obviously really smart, but it did not sound as though math is your strength. Of course it’s all relative, and getting Bs doesn’t mean that you are weak in math. However, since you are getting As in other classes, I would say that you have some serious strengths in other fields, and that you may want to go with them. What classes were your favorites, even if you found them to be challenging?
As for your question - I definitely think that you should go with Calculus Honors. From what you are describing, taking AP Calc AB would not only be a bad experience, but I suspect that it would have a negative impact on your performance in other classes as well.
In any case, if Honor Calculus is not challenging for you, then you’ll be ready to tackle college Calculus, and major in any of the fields that require calculus. If you do not like Honors Calc, you’d probably be much happier and more successful in a major which does not require calculus.
Appreciate all of the input! I’ll think I will apply just to keep the option open but am reconsidering taking the class.
That’s been my philosophy all along - but I don’t want to leave a stronger class on the table if I think I could handle it
I asked a senior to confirm they started in the fall and yes, they start in late October.
You’re absolutely right. My homework grades have rebounded but this has been an ongoing struggle this year.
While I did struggle just keeping up with the workload this year, and I do consider myself much more of a language person, I did have a good test average and placed at my state’s Mu Alpha Theta convention high enough to consider myself passable at math enough for a business or economics major. I found AP Economics fascinating and think it would be a good major choice before possible law school but my plan there certainly not set in stone.
You’re totally fine. 36 ACT, football, great GPA. Take some stress off of yourself and take the Calc honors, instead of Calc AB, although first check with the current seniors to make sure that it isn’t the exact same class, just without the AP label on it, and make sure the teacher is good. If not, consider AP Stat as an alternative - good for Econ, anyway.
I’m pretty sure that you will get into T30 and below. You might get into T20, if you have something they want, and if so, Calc Honors vs Calc AB is not going to make any difference to them. And unless you have something they REALLY want, you’re unlikely to get into tippy-top schools, and again, the level of Calc wouldn’t make any difference to them then.
If you like Tulane, you should look into applying for their Altman program. My friend’s superstar daughter is currently in it, LOVES it. Combine that with a law degree, and you will be a master of the universe.
Update: Been officially placed in Honors Calculus. I may be able to still somehow negotiate my way into AP but if the input y’all provided is accurate I think I’ll just accept this as the only non-AP I’m taking for next year. Appreciate y’all’s input.
Outside of being a STEM major, and outside of the T10-T20 schools, I really don’t believe the lack of AP calc is a major negative on your application.
They certainly do look at whether your rigor aligns with your anticipated studies.
And outside of the T10-T20 schools, they generally aren’t just looking at “all AP across the board” candidates.
And a high grade in honors may help your overall application more than a so-so grade in AP.
A high school calculus course that is less rigorous than AP calculus AB may emulate a calculus for business majors course that colleges sometimes offer. But obviously, the students should not expect any advanced placement for that even if they later need to take calculus for business majors in college.
While I agree that a 6:00AM study session is a no go, adcoms at the more selective colleges (not even places like MIT or Cal Tech) do specifically look for Calculus on the transcript. They definitely scrutinize course choices, if anything, that may be the place where they spend the most time. One director of admissions said in a session, “In terms of math, Calculus is the first course we look for”, and this was not a college with less than 10% acceptance rate and the adcom was not just talking stem applicants.
Now for this OP, given Tulane type of college and that they may be “miserable” taking AB Calc, then Calc Honors is the way to go.
Well…neither of our kids took high school calculus and one was an engineering major. Kid took calculus in college. Strong and well regarded engineering program but not MIT or CalTech level.
Let’s not be pedantic. I was addressing the OP’s question, not the unasked question by each of the other 3 million + US students in his grade-level. Calculus honors is still calculus.
Users on this site, particularly parents, need to do a better job of focusing on student questions instead of trying to turn discussions into larger agendas.