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<p>Well, if it is median LSAT they care about, then they can go as low as they want in terms of LSAT for 25% of the admits and not affect the median LSAT score.</p>
<p>Anyway, the OP’s post is very interesting, especially as I don’t know much about law. I always thought that GPA was as limiting as LSAT score.</p>
<p>collegealum314 notes,“Well, if it is median LSAT they care about, then they can go as low as they want in terms of LSAT for 25% of the admits and not affect the median LSAT score.”</p>
<p>Response: This is partially true. IF you accept to many kids below the median LSAT, you risk having a drop in your median LSAT. Moreover, most schools are trying to raise their LSAT and/or GPA median averages. Thus, a school might admit a student who has LSAT’s slightly below their median if the GPA is significantly above their median. I would assume that the reverse is somewhat true especially if there is a high enough LSAT. I have seen law schools admit folks with a 2.5 or even lower who had great LSATs. I am sure, as Steverino notes, the admission folks would hold their noses as they admit folks like this.</p>
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<p>Re #42: No, I think the point that #41 is (correctly) trying to make is: if you are concerned about the median, then how low the scores are doesn’t matter. It’s what percentage of low scores you are. A class that is 49% 145 and 51% 170 has the same median as a class that is 49% 169 and 51% 170.</p>
<p>Bluedevel. Lets say that there are five LSAT scores: 150 151, 152, 153 and 155. The median is 152. However , if too many are taken at lower scores, it could skew the median,which is all I am saying. </p>
<p>Thus, if the scores accepted are 149, 149 150 and 156, and 157, this median is 150,which is down from 152 in the previous example.</p>
<p>? Doesn’t that just prove my point?</p>
<p>Bluedevilmike, well if it does then I guess we are saying the same thing. :)</p>
<p>I mean, the reason the median fell in your example was because the middle guy fell. But if you took your first scenario (median 152) and you substituted the lower scores for, say, 124 and 127, the median still wouldn’t move.</p>
<p>Medians respond to how many low scores you have, and not how low they are.</p>
<p>Taxguy, from what I have seen, the LSATs seem to be virtually unnegotiable. I believe related my, yes ancient, experience with law school admissions. I know some other stories similar to mine, but the common thread are the high LSATs. </p>
<p>My dear friend’s daughter was turned down by top law schools despite graduated cum laud with a double major as one of the top graduates, with a 3.98 average. She went through the process twice, and at 3 of the schools the law admissions officers were very optimistic about her getting accepted. She was waitlisted both times. She did not get into a top 14 law firm. Her LSATs were the problem.</p>
<p>However once she was in law school (a top 100 school) she was able to transfer (encouraged and then rejected again by top 14 schools) to a top 50 school with a straight A average. She graduated at the top of her class from law school and got prestigious clerkships to influential judges and is currently on partner ship track with a major national law firm and is making over $250K despite not being even 30 years old. I know a number of other folks that got great jobs with top firms by being at the top of the class of less well known law firms. My son’s mother was valedictorian of a low rated law school, president of law review there and was heavily courted by major law firms where she did make partner. She told me that the very top students at lower rated law firms are more desired that those in the bottom of half of the top 14. She would know as she does hire at her firm though she has since moved out of partnership due to her kids and family life that she did not want to sacrifice. They permit her to work the “mommy track” there which suits her just fine. My husband’s partner is urging his son to go to the in state law schools and bust his tail getting high grades rather than trying to get into the most competitive firms. The only time it makes a big difference is in certain true boutique firms, supreme court setting and white she firms on Wall Street that truly have a policy that they only hire from top 14. In fact, being from an out of state law school can be a detriment in some areas in terms of getting a clerkship from local judges who support their local law schools.</p>
<p>I have a number of friends who are judges and they do support their local law schools and have never, never given a clerkship to a top 14 kid. The clerkships are essential in getting top positions locally in certain firms. And these are where more of the job openings are. Those truly plum positions like supreme court clerk, white shoe firm are difficult to get unless your kid, yes, is from a top 14 firm, and also is in the upper half of the class (no easy task given the brain power and competiveness of those kids) and/or connections. Yeah, there is that old boy network there too, and since it now includes the daughters of the good old boys, and diversity is also being heralded, the truly open seats are even further reduced. The chances of getting anything there are very small.</p>
<p>From what I can see, all the facts in #48 seem to be right. But I think this recommendation is wrong:
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<p>The problem is that tail-busting is insufficient to earn high grades in law school. Some of it is innate talent, but a lot of it is just plain luck. For that reason, ex ante, it’s still better to go to a higher-ranked law school unless the lower-ranked one is offering a ton more money.</p>
<p>As just one example, Emory’s on-campus interviewing resulted in one job last year. It’s true that that one kid probably did better than the bottom half at a higher-ranking school. But it’s far easier to be in the top half of a T14 than to be the single top kid at Emory.</p>
<p>(Of course, in this case Emory happens to be private, which compounds the problem of high tuition. But the same analysis would apply to a state school. And Emory’s not a bad law school by any means.)</p>
<p>If a kid has a chance to get into, say the top 14 or the higher rated schools in the city where he expects to practice, then by all means he should do it. But if you are not in that upper echelon, you truly might be better going to a lower rated local or state law school and do as well as you can. Going up a notch, like going to Emory does not seem to get you much better chances in terms of national jobs and unless you are practicing in Atlanta, you will be toting that degree and competing for jobs with the local favorite sons. Not to mention the cost of Emory law school vs state law schools.</p>
<h1>50: You seem to be suggesting the following:</h1>
<p>“Between schools 15-100, cost differences and market differences should trump rankings.”</p>
<p>I don’t think this rule is crazy. But I wouldn’t tell kids to go to UVa if you’re only planning on staying in Charlottesville, or Yale only if you want to stay in Connecticut. I’d also point out that UT Austin and UCLA are also great programs – although they, too, are public.</p>
<p>I am going to suggest some ideas that might go against the grain of what is normally advised. </p>
<p>I do see why folks would suggest going to the highest ranked school that you can get into. Let’s face it, job searches will probably be easier. I get it.</p>
<p>However, each law school has its own culture. Some law schools are more nurturing than others and teach kids initially how to outline/brief and maybe even study for exams. Some on the other hand just start going over cases with no nurturing. Some schools have smaller, more intimate classes where you get to know the professors, while some try to put as many kids as the seating will hold. Some schools are not only cutthroad but encouraged to be that way and some are a bit friendlier. Some libraries have all the books available to law students in the stacks and some have the newest books behind the librarian that must be ordered to take out. Some have new libraries and great courtrooms with the last technology for getting input and some schools have moot court rooms that date back 20 years or more. </p>
<p>Bottom line: I strongly urge you to check out the law schools that you are considering. Really evaluate what is there. Ask questions of the students about how they feel about the professors, classes, library, internship prospects and job prospects. </p>
<p>I attended a tier 1 law school, solely based on rankings, that was clearly the wrong school for me. I don’t want anyone else to make that decision.</p>
<p>Bottom line: Law school ranking might be important,but the bottom line is to become the best lawyer you can be. Getting into a top school while you don’t develop strong legal skills will be worthless regardless of the school that you attend.</p>
<p>Taxguy- most 3-L’s would happily trade off availability of library materials for a shot at a full time job after they graduate next week.</p>
<p>“As just one example, Emory’s on-campus interviewing resulted in one job last year.”</p>
<p>What? Did Emory come out and admit this? I can’t believe it’s true, and I can’t imagine how anyone would know unless Emory admitted it publicly. Maybe this means that only 1 1L, or only 1 3L, got a job through OCI. Firms wouldn’t waste their time showing up on campus if they knew they were going to hire zero attorneys.</p>
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<p>[Emory</a> Law Student Lament: ‘We don?t need donuts, we need jobs.’ Above the Law: A Legal Tabloid - News and Colorful Commentary on Law Firms and the Legal Profession](<a href=“http://abovethelaw.com/2010/07/emory-law-student-lament-we-don’t-need-donuts-we-need-jobs/]Emory”>Emory Law Student Lament: 'We don’t need donuts, we need jobs.' - Above the Law)</p>
<p>My brother is a successful attorney, Taxguy. Has his own firm, does well, loves his job. My niece will be taking the LSAT soon and given her test history and how she has been doing on practice tests, no one is expecting her to get top 14 scores. But she is an excellent college student, as she was an excellent high school student with good but not soaring SATs. He tells me that in his area, which is not that far from yours, getting a clerkship from judges which is important in getting jobs with the local firms often goes along with going to some of the local law firms, and not necessarily the top ones. Getting good grades in those firms is important. </p>
<p>He did not go to a top 14 law school himself but has done quite well in his profession.</p>
<p>Cptofthehouse, the real question is whether your neice is likely to find a job after law school that will pay enough to allow her to both live and make her student loan payments (which, as we all know by now, can be considerable). If a law student is certain to get a job and won’t have student loan payments to worry about, then that law student can attend pretty much any law school they choose. </p>
<p>However, most law schools without solid job placement statistics still charge an arm and a leg for tuition, room and board. Many law firms simply do not pay enough to service significant law school indebtedness repayments. </p>
<p>In addition, it is wonderful that your brother is a successful attorney. However, law school used to cost a lot less money and legal jobs used to be easier to find. The legal market has changed.</p>
<p>So according to ATL, an anonymous Emory law student makes this claim. I’m not convinced unless/until I see a better source than that. Forgive me, but I’ve been around law students for a long time, and I’ve seen them make a lot of outrageous claims.</p>
<h1>58 makes a fair point. I have very mild supporting evidence, which is that the two law students I know at Emory (1) really did receive this e-mail, and (2) seem to think this e-mail is at least roughly correct.</h1>
<p>Admittedly, that STILL is not 100% persuasive.</p>
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<p>EDIT: Oh. Dean of Emory apparently responded to ATL without denying facts of allegation.</p>
<p>Blossom, I am NOT saying that anyone trade off library materials or facilities for a full time job. I agree that if you attend a top ranked school , it will be more helpful for getting a job. However, if you can’t get into the top 14 or so, at least try to get into the best school that you can that also will make you the best lawyer you can be. This also applies to the top 14 as well. Getting into a school that you will hate or doesn’t have the culture that fits with your personality will probably mean that you won’t do as well. Having a high GPA in law school can be much more beneficial at getting a clerkship or job than a much lower GPA.</p>