Egad, my daughter announced her preference of RIT over RISD

College Majors Visual Arts and Film Majors
1

<p>My daughter was just saying that if she got into both RIT and RISD for new media in RIT or graphic design in RISD, she would prefer RIT. I really like RIT, but I don't think that it will offer anywhere close to the opportunities as RISD. Even with RIT's coop program, which they tout, they don't have a strong coop in Art and Design, which certainly detracts from RIT's normal strength.</p>

<p>Her reasoning is that she doesn't want to attend a stand alone art school and wants to meet other types of people. How do I convince her otherwise? Should I even bother to convince her also?</p>

2

<p>What I think is basically it's her choice. That said, the season is young. And she doesn't have to choose before they do admissions, or until she talks to some more people at those schools and others. </p>

<p>I would advise her to seek out focused advice from people who are either working in the industry, or people who are teaching relevant courses at those schools and others as well.</p>

3

<p>My daughter also has said she does not want to attend RISD, but for a different reason. She wants to focus on Fine Arts more broadly. At RISD she would have to choose a specific major by end of freshman year; at Cooper, SAIC or MICA she can remain more of a generalist. </p>

<p>She did agree to add CMU to her list if she removes RISD...</p>

<p>The only objection I had to RISD was the limited merit scholarship money.</p>

4

<p>Right, RISD has that early choice of major to deal with. On the other hand, sometimes students at Cooper don't know what major they will end up with til their senior year. I think that might sometimes handicap students if they don't get enough depth in the field they may finally decide they want to focus on. But watching my daughter's early career development, I know that having a mixture of skills can be very helpful. And I would give strong emphasis for any prospective art or design major on having an incredibly solid "foundation" program. Taxguy, that's one thing I would focus on with RIT -- to make sure they have that.</p>

5

<p>Mackinaw, RIT does seem to have a strong foundation year. However, I can't tell how strong it really is.</p>

6

<p>Taxguy, here are some other issues to also focus on. They came into play when my daughter was thinking of programs. I think they're relevant to any program.</p>

<p>(1) Graduation/attrition rates. This includes the usual 4 and 6 year rates.</p>

<p>(2) Atmosphere in classrooms and amont students. How cooperative, how cut-throat are students, crits, etc. Some programs are reputed to be dog-eat-dog. Some also may have "cutting" (more in performing arts but not unknown in others).</p>

<p>(3) Overseas study opportunities, during school year and summers. Is it encouraged (a real plus IMHO)?</p>

<p>(4) Cooperative arrangements with other schools, not just in liberal arts but even in engineering/science when relevant. Are they formally available, and are they readily used, and by how many students?</p>

<p>(5) Career placement and internships, during school year, summers, and afterwards.</p>

7

<p>Taxguy, Please take this reply in the way in the way in which it is intended- which is with kindness- don't push her too hard one way or the other. </p>

<p>I recall a young girl, myself, who many years ago had a great, loving, informed and very "hands on" dad just like you. When I was about your daughter's age, he tried very hard to pursuade me to NOT go into a certain career and instead wanted me to choose the one that fit my abilities better. Because of my highly independent nature and desire to "show him" I could make my own "adult" decisions, I went against what I instinctively knew was good for me, and opted to go into that area anyway. Unfortunately, I have always regretted it and now know I should have listened to him and not rebelled against him.</p>

<p>Your daughter is probably a lot more level-headed than I was, but be careful. You don't want her making a decision about a school because of you or BECAUSE of you, does that make sense? Hang in there!</p>

8

<p>KandKsmom, you are absolutely right! That is why, I think that if she has an embarrassment of riches in admissions, we will speak to some experts in the field and get their opinions. If she hears recommendations from someone else, it might be more pursuasive.</p>

9

<p>Excellent for her! It's good to see that she can make decisions without your interference. Maybe you pushed her too hard, and she chose the "second best" option because she wanted it to be HER decision and not yours. Kids do that. It may be time to let go of the parental reigns and let your daughter make a few of her own decisions. And if she hates it, she can always transfer. In the end, the school she choses won't make a great deal of difference. Talented students become talented designers, end of story.</p>

10

<p>Your daughter is probably a lot more level-headed than I was, but be careful. You don't want her making a decision about a school because of you or BECAUSE of you, does that make sense? Hang in there!//</p>

<p>Hang in there? RIT is such a terrible school; it will surely be her downfall!!!!
Good grief.</p>

11

<p>Hey, I never said that RIT is a terrible school. In fact, it probably would be my second or third choice among all the schools that she is applying to.&lt;/p>

<p>I wrote the review for RIt in the RIT forum. Clearly, both I and my wife liked the school a lot.</p>

12

<p>RainingAgain, unfortunately you have taken what were meant to be words of application time encouragement for Taxguy and his d and misconstrued them to be negative sentiments toward a particular school. My reply had nothing to do with the pros or cons of RIT (or any other school for that matter).</p>

13

<p>My daughter also applied at Cooper Union and MICA along with RISD. We attended the Cooper open house last Fall and visited with a friend's daughter that attends the art college and also spoke with several of the students in her dorm. They all told us they were very disappointed with the quality of the liberal arts classes and they felt the teachers were not very inspiring. After submitting the hometest, my d became obsessed with getting into Cooper. I think it was the idea of being one of 60 admitted to that school that became the attraction rather than the whether this was the best school for her. I am not saying Cooper isn't a good school, but in my daughter's situation, I think her ego was interfering with her judgment. Maybe that won't be an issue for others. Our friend's daughter is still attending Cooper so
she must be satisfied with her education.</p>

14

<p>Inamini,</p>

<p>First, do you own a Mini Cooper? First thought when I saw the screen name...</p>

<p>Second, which schood did your daughter choose? Was she accepted to Cooper?</p>

<p>My D went through the portfolio review at Cooper a week ago Friday. The faculty advisor who reviewed her work was very enthusiastic. My D told her that Cooper was not her first choice. Not very tactful, but honest...</p>

<p>Not sure if that hurts her chances, but so be it. She is still planning to do the home test. I think it is the precentages that motivate her. The small number that are accepted (65 of 400 completed home tests.)</p>

<p>The studio facilities were good. NYC is a big campus, especially since Cooper's isn't. Do have some concerns regarding academics, but my D knows a sophomore at CU that she plans to talk to about the school.</p>

<p>Thanks for the feedback.</p>

15

<p>My d also preferred RIT over RISD. She didn't feel comfortable with an art school and she preferred an enclosed campus. Everyone warned her that she would be miserable at RIT - the whole "geeky, anti-social" reputation but she's met all types of kids and has chosen a nice group of friends (in and out of her major).</p>

<p>I don't know enough to judge the foundation program but RISD certainly has the reputation as the best art school around. I'm not sure about new media but it's almost impossible to do coops in the design program unless it's during the summer. Design students take sequential courses and it's hard to skip one qtr to go do a coop. Instead, many design students do "internships" during their upperclass yrs or during the summer... The 10 week qtr system is something to consider. Some like it; others hate it. Time moves quickly.</p>

<p>Let your d keep expressing her opinions/concerns and don't be surprised if she flip flops throughout the year (esp with everyone telling her what to do). My d wasn't "thrilled" with any of her choices - no school was the "perfect" school so she spent months being unsure about where she should go. I think kids feel so much pressure to find the perfect fit. I suggest your d should spend time at both schools (overnight, going to class, etc). Visit in the bitter cold (we were out shopping today for a long down coat), visit during the week (go to some classes) and on the weekends (to judge the social life). RIT definitely isn't a party school - although my d has attended parties. Providence offers a lot more to do and all within walking distance. VERY different environments. </p>

<p>I think the grad rate is higher for design students than other majors. Although my d knows a few kids trying to transfer out, 4 or 5 kids on her floor transferred into RIT this yr. Although it's not for everyone, some kids (like my d) are quite happy at RIT.</p>

16

<p>Jerzgrlmom, you have made some good suggestions. We will be submitting her portfolio in person during the winter at RIT; thus, she will get a feel for the climate.</p>

<p>As for lack of parties, my daughter is a very serious student. I don't think that a lack a parties would be a problem.</p>

17

<p>Yes, I own a Mini Cooper! No, my daughter was not accepted at Cooper.
She was accepted at MICA and RISD. She chose RISD. I found out that many of the kids Cooper accepts graduated from magnet art schools. Some of the kids my daughter talked to told her they had been turned down the previous year and they were reapplying. I don't think being honest with the admisssions counselor will hurt your daughter's chances. I got the impression they try to be as objective as possible. We liked the art studios at Cooper a lot. You might want to let your d know that she will have to spend a great deal of time on the Cooper hometest. My daughter spent a lot of time on the RISD hometest so she was a little burned out by the time she started on CU's.</p>

18

<p>In all due respect, I'm not sure why the "egad" and the question about convincing your D otherwise (meaning RISD over RIT). As a parent who has gone through college admissions with two daughters in the past two years, I did not see the process this way (that doesn't make me "right", just sharing a different perspective). Where my kids chose to go to college was totally THEIR choice. I did not have a first choice for them or state ANY preferences. I truly only wanted them to go where they wanted to go, because after all THEY were going, not I. I facilitated their process and was there to discuss stuff, take them on visits, and so forth. They came up with the college lists. If they wanted me to research something, I would do it if they asked, but they made all the decisions. My wish was to see them happy with which choices they were given in the spring and eventually at the school where they chose to go (which by the way, they each LOVE their schools now that they are at them). So, I'm happy. I did not care which they chose. </p>

<p>I don't see why you would even need to convince her to go to RISD, other than your perception that it is a better school/program. Even if it IS better, so what? She likes RIT better and in fact, you mentioned that SHE gave a reason (not wanting solely an art school but more of a university). Her reason is an example of the many reasons kids pick a school, based on personal criteria. It is about finding a school that matches what they want and apparently she is thinking that way, not just about ratings or "best". It is about which is best for what she wants in a college. Sounds to me like she has put a lot of thought into her choices and I do not even know that she is necessarily "digging in her heels" to go against your choice/advice. </p>

<p>I would not even attempt to convince her of the school you like better. I would not even mention that you even LIKE a school on her list better than another. I would tell her that you are sure she could be happy at them and you are glad she has several options she likes. Then you could have discussions where you ask her the pros/cons of each school and what is appealing about the ones she likes the most. You can ASK comparative questions and if she looked at this or that aspect and what did she think about it. I would not say that one is better but ask her to think about why she prefers a certain aspect and kind of talk about the issues without ANY leaning toward any particular school on her list. I do not think you ought to come across with ANY favorites of your own. Keep to just talking about the schools and what SHE likes. Ask her about certain criteria and the differences without proferring yor opinion. Just discuss them as differences. Make sure she looks into all those facets fully. Also right now, since she does not have admissions decisions in hand, it is better that she likes many schools on her list. She only needs to really decide come April and at that time she can even brainstorm on paper her pros/cons for her favorites and it will become clear to her if one stands out as meeting her needs/desires the most (plus revisits and overnights will help that way). </p>

<p>I never even allowed myself to think about which school I liked best. I just never 'went there' on my end. It was all about observing and seeing what my kids would choose. We talked about the schools, differences and all but the part on my end was just helping them think about it or simply taking an interest, but not expressing preferences on my end. I felt like I was along for the ride WITH them but not the one picking the colleges. </p>

<p>In the end, my kids owned their process and their college decision and thankfully are loving where they are at. A scenario I would not want to be in is to have kids at college who were not thrilled with the school and to be thinking mom or dad persuaded them to go there when in their own gut, they wanted a different school. </p>

<p>When the kids were younger, we decided many things FOR them but this is one time when I truly believe they need to decide this major thing...where they will spend the next four years in which they will devote time and effort, and it is important that it is where they like and that it is "best" in terms of fit, not necessarily best in terms of reputation or mom's or dad's preferences. Research these specifics on each school, as you seem to be doing and share what you know and ask what she thinks and what is important to her. Guide her in thinking of which questions to ask and to compare her options but explain that you truly support which ever school she picks. Make sure she knows that. That statement is not the same if it is pre-empted with "my favorite school where we'd love to see you go is RISD but we will support which ever school you choose." I'd only say, we support any school you pick. Make sure you look at each thoroughly and share with us why you have made your choice. Then if there is a facet about the schools that you feel she overlooked, share what you know, ask her to think about those and give you her thoughts. You can gather information but it is she who must own the decision and also not even be aware of your preference because she should not feel persuaded or influenced to either please mom/dad or like others said, to pick the opposite to be defiant but she should just be FREE to choose and to know you are behind her choice no matter what it is. Please do not come across to her as disappointed if she opts for the school that is not as prestigious as another particularly if she has reasons (she appears to). As long as she articulates reasons for her choices and they are not fluff, then she has made an informed choice that she feels good about and OWNS. </p>

<p>As a side note, while RISD is surely just an art school, the fact that it is adjacent to Brown and that RISD students can take courses at Brown and partake in many activities at Brown, might be something to point out as not being exactly like an art school that does not have that. My D goes to Brown and is taking a RISD studio course right now and plans to again next semester. My D also tried out for a tap dance troupe at her own school, Brown, and I think they only took one new girl and the girl was from RISD and so that girl got it over the Brown kids who auditioned so RISD kids surely do have access to some university type experiences, be it classes or activities. Same happened last year in fact.</p>

<p>Susan</p>

19

<p>There is a lot of implicit editorializing in the comment "Egad", as RainingAgain also picked up on. It's a very delicate process, doing everything possible to advise, encourage and facilitate your children's collee application process to the best of your ability, while simultaneously refraining from being too meddlesome.</p>

<p>For what it's worth, the way I have tried to help my son in the process is to do a lot of the legwork with research, to constantly throw out new options, various choices for majors and what that might entail, sound him out about what really matters in the college experience, etc. He is applying to RIT, MICA, RISD, as well as CMU, SCAD and SUNY-Purchase (we're NY State residents, but even for non NY residents, this should be looked at carefully).</p>

<p>Each school, in it's own way is a "#1 choice", in that there is something about each one that makes it especially desirable, and I am doing my best to refrain from "ordering" them in any general way, that might make him feel like a loser if he doesn't get in.</p>

<p>I was INCREDIBLY impressed with the program at RIT, as was my son, but he has questions about living in Rochester for 4 years, the campus being a little too slick and antiseptic, and the horrific food at Gracie's. (I trust there are other options, otherwise.......... persih the thought) My feeling is that if RIT was anywhere else besides Rochester, it might be the MOST desirable place to study Graphics or New Media.</p>

<p>But, ultimately, HE'S the one that is going to live the experience.</p>

20

<p>One detail - It might be good to start thinking in terms of "she" will be submitting her portfolio, instead of "we". Backing off a little will make it easier for your daughter to know what she wants for herself and, as they say, own the application process. It seems like you enjoy learning about and comparing the schools, but at this point I would say it's up to her.</p>