A common pattern I’ve noticed is students taking AP credit for courses outside their major or that don’t match the equivalent college course well but using other AP courses as a preview for classes they need for their major. For instance a kid who wants to be pre-med might use AP French to knock out the college language requirement and take credit for AP lit because he’s unlikely to find a course with the same reading list but retake Chemistry and Calculus for the grade bump.
93 I'M from suburban Chicago I didn't realize Northwestern is one of those "middling level Colleges."
No problem if elite private high school students don’t earn any college credits with AP. However, among less affluent students many have benefited from the AP college credits by either graduating college early or taking more advanced courses during their college years.
I think this does a good job of explaining the pace of AP classes versus their college equivalents. In my high school, a semester long dual enrollment course would give you the equivalent credit as a year-long high school class.
Well, as I earlier said, that can be placed squarely at the feet of the College Board.
Personally, I’m more concerned that with the recent announcement that the AP World History course will start with 1450 (and therefore dropping ~40% of the current syllabus), that the CB is conveying to the youth of the world that history is eurocentric
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/21/us/ap-world-history-exam.html
I see it as a big disadvantage if students are graduating a semester or a year early because they took AP courses. AP classes are NOT a college education. They are cheating themselves if they miss out on four or ten college classes. My D asked if she could attend her college part-time last semester senior year (because she has AP credits). My H and I said absolutely not. You have one chance to go to college. Squeeze everything possible out of your time there.
Many of the grads of these schools will attend colleges where the AP credits matter, at least for registration priority. My guess is that the students all end up taking the exams anyway.
Some may not have a choice financially, in that graduating early, or not graduating late, is the only way to afford college. Also, college academics are more unique at the upper levels, not at the introductory levels that AP credit sometimes substitutes for.
However, many students use AP credit instead to take more advanced courses or free electives instead of introductory courses that they skip with AP credit.
…which would be meaningful if HS students didn’t take 7-8 courses at a time over that year.
“Any HS school that is taking an entire school year to cover what a college covers in a semester is not preparing students well for the pace of college.”
Only if you’re looking at the pace of an individual class and not looking at the overall workload each student has. On average, here’s the workload comparison:
HS - In physical class/school 6-7 hours per day M-F. 7 different classes/subjects studied at one time.
College - In physical class 2-4 hours per day M-4. 4 different classes/subjects studied at one time.
If Calc is one of 7 different classes a HS student is taking, it would be very difficult for it to be covered in a single semester because unlike the college student that only has 3 other classes and is in physical class 2-4 hours a day, the high school student has 6 other classes and is in physical class most of the day. Different pace per individual class, but not necessarily slower paced when you consider the entire schedule.
My niece and nephew will graduate early (saving money for their parents). My D17 had 15 or so AP credits. I do not want my daughter to graduate early. I agree with @brantly that she should enjoy her college experience to the fullest by being there and enjoying all 4 years. But, she did fulfill her math requirements and foreign language requirements with AP, allowing her to take some amazing and different courses in her first year–she is not a STEM kid, nor will she major or minor in a foreign language. She may also want to study abroad and those extra AP credits give a bit of a cushion if she is not able to apply all study abroad credits that she takes. So, it is all working out for her.
Probably not the best example. Calc AB would be an example of a class usually taught as a year-long course in HS, but in a semester in college. But Calc BC is usually (but not always - depends on the school) taught as a year-long class following pre-calc. For almost all colleges, the credit equivalents would be Calc 1 and Calc 2. Some other courses also more closely mirror the college pace, e.g. Physics C and Econ when both parts are taught in a single year.
The number of AP classes is one of the factors for the University of California colleges admissions. High school Students should take a lot of AP/Honors classes in order to be a competitive applicant. Even if there are only few AP classes will count toward college credits, specially for the STEM majors, it counts for an admission.
http://admission.universityofcalifornia.edu/freshman/how-applications-reviewed/index.html
Students with higher number of AP/Community college classes have a higher stand for the priority classes registration in college.
Next year my junior will take 5 year long APs
Calc AB
Physics 1
Eng. Comp
Chemistry
US History
and her sixth period is athletics, she does a varsity sport in the fall and another in the spring. At our school this is considered a full load. She starts junior year with 3 APs done. She will do the same load senior year and finish with 14 APs (as one year of econ is 2 APs)
I really don’t fathom how/why some schools are having students doing 7 or 8 in a year. But as I stated before our school has a very high pass rate, with many 5s and a few perfect scores every year.
Totally depends upon the college.
There are no limits on how long you can go to college. My father has an undergrad and 3 masters. You can continue to take classes your entire life. If AP credits allow you to place out of courses you don’t care for and allow you take more of those you like (to complete a double major in 4 years, for example) then they are pretty great. And if those AP credits let you get out a semester early, so that you can go to grad school, then all the better for the pocketbook.
For our students it’s more like:
HS seniors - In physical class 3.75-5 hours per day M-F. 3-4 different classes/subjects studied at one time.
University STEM majors - In physical class 4-5 hours per day M-F, 5-6 different classes/subjects studied at one time.
DS19’s school is semestered. Next year as a senior he will have 2 Honours + 1 Pre-AP + 3 AP all half year:
Pre-AP/Honours Pre-Calc
AP Calc BC
AP Chemistry
AP Physics 1
Honours English
Honours Computer Science
and his seventh course is Instrumental Music. He will have a spare first semester (he was going to take AP World History but it conflicted with another course).
Physics and Chemistry will be in first semester which ends in February so they will have study groups to prepare for the AP exams in May. Calculus BC will be in 2nd semester but our school year runs until June so they will have to accelerate the course to have them ready to write the AP exam in May. It will be a heavier course load than the typical high school senior but I still don’t think it will be as demanding as what he will face in first year university.
I am frequently amazed, when reading CC threads to learn how different academic experiences are. My children attended a public high school in the Chicago area…enrollment around 3,300. They were in school from 7:45am to 3:10pm. There were eight 50 minute periods, which included one for lunch and one for P.E… Senior year, my son took five AP classes, one honors class and P.E… He was on two varsity sports teams (Fall and Spring). My daughter had a similar load, but only one varsity sport.
I believe the AP classes at their school were done ‘right’. They were taught by exceptional teachers. The classes had students who were properly prepared for them. When I looked up the AP student exam pass rate for their school it was 89%.
Both found the transition to college relatively easy. AP classes in our case were a blessing.
I just wanted to add that although some ‘elite’ schools may be dropping AP classes, I hope they aren’t eliminated from most schools. In my opinion they serve a purpose for many students. As with many things, implementation is key to success.
@88jm19 it is interesting. The standard for our schools (which you quoted) is 4 x 75 minutes of class + 1 x 75 minutes for lunch x 2 semesters. The school day runs from 8:20 am to 2:46 pm. In terms of workload though, your son’s wasn’t much different than what my son’s will be. It’s just arranged differently. 6 x 50 minutes vs 4 x 75 minutes. It still comes to 5 hours of academic instructional time. At our schools PE is only mandatory in grade 9.
This is nothing new. Phillips Exeter and Andover long ago adopted similar policies and dropped AP courses. And an increasing number of elite colleges are no longer giving credit for APs or only using them for placement. Dartmouth and Chicago are like this, and Barnard has just announced a similar policy. Other universities only give credit for a few exams and then require a “5”.
As for universities considering APs for admission, they usually focus on AP or “honors” courses and not the actual AP exam. In the case of the Washington, DC private schools, they argue that their courses already are as challenging as APs, if not moreso.