<p>Yes, it was the ACE program that they have at Notre Dame - thanks for clarifying that.</p>
<p>dragonmom, I agree with you that giving future leaders classroom experience is ONE of the goals of TFA, but it is pretty adamant that it is trying to create career educators, too. If you follow the various skirmishes of words around the country between TFA and its education-establishment critics, TFA is very touchy about that. It has at least some statistics to back up its claims. And given that people like Michelle Rhee and the KIPP founders are TFA alumni, I don’t think there’s any question that they have had impact within classrooms and schools as well as outside them.</p>
<p>D’s good friend is at Aquinas College in MI, where she has been in local classrooms right from the start. They don’t major in education, but rather in a subject area (this young woman is majoring in math - D thinks it’s funny that she has to take 2 or 3 calc classes just to teach elementary math!). Seems like this young woman will be incredibly well prepared. I would think that the best thing to look for is an experiential program. Teaching is an art, and it is best learned while doing & while under the direction of seasoned professionals.</p>
<p>Regarding the subject certifications, this is also state specific. Pennsylvania recently changed their certifications and is now asking new teachers as early as fourth grade to be subject certified. The new teachers have to choose early childhood, middle level or secondary. Reciprocal doesn’t always mean that the whole certification is reciprocal, it means that the states will accept the degree as being acceptable, but that the candidate still needs to take the tests. </p>
<p>I don’t know of any states that flat out reciprocate another’s certification, but maybe someone else does. Here’s a plug for Millersville University of PA and a look at their education program. You’ll note that they mention getting the students in the classrooms right away. [Millersville</a> University - Elementary & Early Childhood Education](<a href=“http://www.millersville.edu/eled/]Millersville”>Department of Early, Middle, And Elementary Education | Millersville University) They also have an inner-city teacher experience.</p>
<p>Most of the teachers I know in Ca first did an undergrad program in whatever major they wanted. Many who are elementary ed teachers majored in Liberal Studies. Some complete the BA and apply to a credential program at the same college. Others apply to credential programs at other schools. In this approach a student could attend college OOS and apply and enter a credential program on returning to Ca.
The young woman I know of who went to Seattle Pacific really wanted a Christian education. Her first plan was to complete her education in Washington including that credential and enter a Cal State on return to Ca. Even though that meant repeating many of the same courses and doing the student teaching all over again. After 4 yrs and meeting the young man she just married she decided to not return to Ca.</p>
<p>The only program I know that gives teachers a certification that is accepted fairly broadly is National Board certification [National</a> Board for Professional Teaching Standards: National Board for Professional Teaching Standards](<a href=“NBPTS Main Site Home - NBPTS Main Site”>http://www.nbpts.org/). However, not every state takes it and to even be eligible for the program you have to have been in the classroom for at least three years. </p>
<p>(Plug for NBCT: It’s great professional development so those of you in the classroom or with kids in the classroom, should check it out. Also, it’s one way for an experienced teacher to get a bump in salary in some districts. It’s a lot of work but quite satisfying.)</p>
<p>Parent100 -</p>
<p>As to subject area majors for El. Ed. This is going to depend on the state, and to a certain extent on the college/university. </p>
<p>The University of Northern Iowa (which started life as the public teacher’s college in Iowa) offers a major Elementary Education (K-6). Students are encouraged to complete a minor as well as the major, but it isn’t specifically required. For the Middle Level major (5-8), students are required to have a additional coursework. [UNI</a> Majors | Curriculum & Instruction](<a href=“http://www.uni.edu/majors/coe/ci/index.shtml]UNI”>http://www.uni.edu/majors/coe/ci/index.shtml) The University of Maryland requires El. Ed. majors to include an “Area of Emphasis”. [EDCI</a> Elementary Education](<a href=“http://www.education.umd.edu/EDCI/info/elementary.htm]EDCI”>http://www.education.umd.edu/EDCI/info/elementary.htm)</p>
<p>Since your daughter has an interest in Spanish, I’d recommend that she think about getting dual certification in El. Ed. and TESOL. The market for TESOL is not going away, and elementary age ESOL students are a lot of fun to work with!</p>
<p>Shouldn’t someone who will become an elementary teacher be careful not to attend an expensive school that will require lots of loans? </p>
<p>I know very few new teachers who get paid enough to support themselves and make monthly payments for student loans. Just borrowing $10k per year ($40k total) will cause a $460 per month payment for ten long years - that’s over $5500 of a teacher’s salary each year for 10 years - yikes!</p>
<p>Isn’t it better to try to find an affordable good school (unless parents can pay full-freight), then burden a new teacher with debt?</p>
<p>I would agree. ^^^ In my mind, it just doesn’t make sense to go into debt for a degree when you know that the starting (and ending) salary is so low, at least around here. Ds1 is considering secondary teaching, and this is a conversation we’ll be having when it’s time to pick a college. His safety is an in-state public, and if he is serious about teaching this is where I’ll advise him to attend.</p>
<p>That said, the best teacher he’s ever had earned her master’s at an Ivy. I certainly appreciate the education she received and has passed on.</p>
<p>Well, IMO, $40,000 in loans is pretty steep to begin with - no matter what major!</p>
<p>A teacher’s salary is in line with many other professional majors and I personally feel that fit, program requirements/experiences should be as much in play as any other major. So I wouldn’t “settle” for anything less than a great program - wherever it is.</p>
<p>“What should she be looking for and what questions should she be asking?”</p>
<p>One question overrides all others:</p>
<p>“What are your job placement statistics?”</p>
<p>not a help with identifying colleges, but an editorial that brings up often overlooked points.
[Teach</a> Your Teachers Well](<a href=“http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/02/opinion/02engel.html?_r=1&ref=opinion]Teach”>http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/02/opinion/02engel.html?_r=1&ref=opinion)</p>
<p>^I was just going to post that! Read it this morning and thought it was a brilliant article. Not a practical solution for the individual student I suppose, but a great read for those who care a lot about teacher education.</p>
<p>Check out Michigan State University’s College of Education. Creating great teachers is a big deal there, elementary and secondary.</p>
<p>Sorry, but I haven’t been able to read this whole thread, so I don’t know if these points have been mentioned.</p>
<p>1) There are no jobs for Elementary teachers! Sure, colleges provide the major, but the competition for any job, especially in a public school, is fierce. Unless you want to work in an urban area. Turn over is very telling.
2) Best jobs are available only through the student-internship. If you don’t land anything after that, you’ll be stuck substituting. Message: be picky about where you intern.
3) Best teachers aren’t really taught. They have a loud (commanding voice) w/ a matching personality. Being attractive helps.
4) Best programs don’t waste a lot of tie “teaching” teachers. They do that through practical experience. It helps though to watch “master” teachers. Learning Classroom management is the most important training you’d get.
5) many schools hire from certain ‘feeder’ schools. Even though my friends live in CT, all their teachers came from Columbia’s “Teacher College” in NYC.</p>
<p>Go back to #1. There are no jobs. Lots of job fairs. No jobs.</p>
<p>My quote: >>>>>>>
Shouldn’t someone who will become an elementary teacher be careful not to attend an expensive school that will require lots of loans? </p>
<p>I know very few new teachers who get paid enough to support themselves and make monthly payments for student loans. Just borrowing $10k per year ($40k total) will cause a $460 per month payment for ten long years - that’s over $5500 of a teacher’s salary each year for 10 years - yikes!</p>
<p>Isn’t it better to try to find an affordable good school (unless parents can pay full-freight), then burden a new teacher with debt?
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<</p>
<p>youdon’tsay >>>>>>> I would agree. ^^^ In my mind, it just doesn’t make sense to go into debt for a degree when you know that the starting (and ending) salary is so low, at least around here. Ds1 is considering secondary teaching, and this is a conversation we’ll be having when it’s time to pick a college. His safety is an in-state public, and if he is serious about teaching this is where I’ll advise him to attend.
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<</p>
<p>abasket >>>>>>>>>>>>
Well, IMO, $40,000 in loans is pretty steep to begin with - no matter what major!</p>
<p>A teacher’s salary is in line with many other professional majors and I personally feel that fit, program requirements/experiences should be as much in play as any other major. So I wouldn’t “settle” for anything less than a great program - wherever it is.
<<<<<<<<<<</p>
<p>Actually, a beginning teacher’s salary is typically low and stays “low” for several years. So, there would be a concern about the hardship of student loan repayment during those early years. Especially since an adult who is between the ages of 23 - 33 (often the 10 year pay back years), is trying to move on with their lives at that point…buy a home, marry, start a family, etc. </p>
<p>But, I agree that $40k in loans is steep to begin with, but you’d be surprised how many kids are taking out such loans (an much higher) in order to afford their educations - at private schools, as well as public schools (now that it costs about $25k per year for a kid to “go away” to a public school. Many kids don’t think borrowing $10k per year is “too much.” Many of such kids are lucky to get $10-15k from parents; they don’t qualify for grants, so they have to borrow the balance.</p>
<p>For this reason I think it’s best to find the best elem education program a person can find for the least about debt incurred.</p>
<p>I’m the original poster.</p>
<ol>
<li><p>Yes, I agree with the advise to not take on student loan debt to be paid back on a teacher’s salary. Cost is paramount in this process and my daughter knows that her choices will be limited to those schools that make her an affordable offer. For this reason she won’t be applying to top-tier colleges but second-tier colleges that will find her stats appealing enough to offer her decent merit aid. Debt is out of the question.</p></li>
<li><p>I did NOT know, as zweebop writes, that “there are no jobs for elementary teachers.” Can anyone else corroborate or disagree with this statement? I thought I had read more than once that huge numbers of teachers will be retiring in the coming years.</p></li>
</ol>
<p>1) There are no jobs for Elementary teachers! Sure, colleges provide the major, but the competition for any job, especially in a public school, is fierce. Unless you want to work in an urban area. Turn over is very telling.</p>
<p>There are a LOT of teachers who are nearing retirement age, even at the elementary level. In fact, some folks are predicting a shortage of teachers overall in the next five years due to the large number of anticipated retirements. Also, if you’re willing to “go where the jobs are” you will find a job.</p>
<p>2) Best jobs are available only through the student-internship. If you don’t land anything after that, you’ll be stuck substituting. Message: be picky about where you intern.</p>
<p>Some schools do NOT allow the students to CHOOSE where they do their intern (I assume you mean student teaching) work. And some school districts do NOT hire from the student teaching pool. I can count on one hand the number of student teachers our district has hired in the 29 years I’ve worked there…and MANY of them have been very talented teachers.</p>
<p>3) Best teachers aren’t really taught. They have a loud (commanding voice) w/ a matching personality. Being attractive helps.</p>
<p>As a teacher, I am VERY offended by this comment. Anyone entering education should be as well. It doesn’t take “being attractive” or having a “loud voice”. It takes a lot of skill and knowledge, and management to become a good teacher. Most teachers learn a LOT about becoming a great teacher in school AND in their first jobs.</p>
<p>4) Best programs don’t waste a lot of tie “teaching” teachers.
They do that through practical experience. It helps though to watch “master” teachers. Learning Classroom management is the most important training you’d get.</p>
<p>Agreed on this one. If you can’t manage the classroom of kids, you are not going to be successful as a teacher.</p>
<p>5) many schools hire from certain ‘feeder’ schools. Even though my friends live in CT, all their teachers came from Columbia’s “Teacher College” in NYC.</p>
<p>That’s funny…I live in CT too and we have NO teachers on our staff from Teachers College Columbia. We have had extensive professional development in our district through Columbia. But we haven’t hired ONE teacher from there. Maybe that only happens in other districts.</p>
<p>Having said that…Teachers College Columbia is an excellent program. I would recommend folks consider that for a masters degree.</p>
<p>Why wouldn’t schools hire from the student teacher pool?</p>
<p>The teachers in our district are hired from all over the place. I had a neighbor who was in administration in our district and when I asked her what they looked for in a new applicant, she said grades, teaching experience, references and what they did in their spare time. Spare time meaning working as a camp counselor instead of working at Burger King or doing nothing. </p>
<p>It IS very, very difficult to get a job right now teaching but that doesn’t mean it will be that way 6 years from now. My daughter has been able to find work since she graduated but she also has friends that are only able to substitute. One of them graduated from Columbia Teachers College and could not find a job anywhere in NYC due to a hiring freeze.</p>
<p>We have too many colleges in this area to hire from a “student teaching pool”.</p>