<p>Well, there is also room to grow as far as salary goes anyway.</p>
<p>And I always have law as a backup. I'm DMing in Political Science.</p>
<p>Some of the above gender related posts are addressed specifically to me while others might be more for female arch students in general. My take is that they were all meant in a spirit of support for women in architecture and will leave it with yes, I'm very aware, and thank you for your thoughts.</p>
<p>-sara</p>
<p>Now as far as the best path to fame and fortune in architecture goes, (assuming f&f is your goal). Do you really think; college prep high school - elite, selective lac undergrad BS degree - Ivy MArch - prestigious firm early employment, is THE way? Seems to me it's a very crowded pathway. Isn't great architecture premised on creativity, innovation and unique thinking? Shouldn't we be running away from the herd mentality and seeking the paths less taken?</p>
<p>-sara</p>
<p>There is no room for howard roark.</p>
<p>i think its gonna come down to carnegie and cal poly</p>
<p>msheft</p>
<p>There are several other schools that have recently received NAAB accreditation for, or are moving towards 5 yr MArch programs. As you say some add study abroad, intern or co-op semester. The fifth year is an intensive, thesis driven option, (at least one school says you can decline the MArch and opt for a 5yr BArch). I have not found a lot of info on them yet. Have no clue how they'll work out.</p>
<p>-sara</p>
<p>roak is fiction</p>
<p>-sara</p>
<p>I am afraid the fact is more chilling than fiction. archkid, by sitting in a graduate-level studio for a summer, you will learn a great deal of the clash between idealism and reality. No kidding. Wait and see what's going to happen is the best cure for a childlike if not childish claim.
I personally don't discourge women to stand for what they believe. But, work as twice as hard as your male collegues is nearly impossible ( the most competent, talented and hardworking male collegue of mine works 22/6, is that mathematically possible to accomplish?) and please take other factors into your decision making process. (Do you want to have a family, get married and have kids?) These things will jeopardize your career and force you to make difficult compromises. Good luck! I think CMU is a fantastic choice for you. (In fact, I was accepted last year and didn't attend).</p>
<p>Fallin, please don't use the term jeopardize. Yes, having a family or getting married will make you compromise, but it should not be perceived as a "threat" (the looming iron curtain of marriage haha).</p>
<p>Jeopardize, indeed, it is nothing less than jeopardize! </p>
<p>My Cornell interviewer asked me this question, " if you have to make a compromise, which one of the following are you willing to sacrifice: fame ( most architects really want it), money (the realistic measure of success) and family (what women tend to value)?" He chose the latter two over fame because he said, coming from a family of a renowned physician, he knows how terriable it is to witness the disintegration of the family over money yet the bread winner himself was too busy to give more attention to his children. Since he was a victim of over-achieving household which paid a costly price, he said he will never let the same thing happen to his wife and children. And now, he lives in Orange County peacefully, without the frantic lifestyle of a star architect, he feels he is more fulfilling than ever! He's still the principal of a commercial firm, he told me this kind of life is so different from the one he envisioned when he was freshly out of Cornell and worked for Eisenman!</p>
<p>Well, if this architect's choice could tell you something, that is the freedom of choice. Ole Scheeren (the partner of OMA who's in charge of the CCTV in Beijing) has said that it is time to slow down a bit and start to have a life! A life, indeed, is way more than architecture!</p>
<p>architecture is a great profession, but not for the feint of heart. as you're working hard in school, realize it's no different in the real world of architecture. everything you do will take longer than you planned. and yes, the pay is low, especially relative to other professions, and even trades. it's depressing to pay the electrician or plumber or car repair people more per hour than you can imagine being paid. i highly recommend that all architecture students take a class in entrepreneurial business just to give you exposure to the thought process of running a business. most of what you'll get in school regarding design theory, etc, is really important to your success and education, but if the profession is to change in regard to the more temporal rewards, attitudes and education that it's still a business need to improve. lots of clients still think it's okay to 'hire' architects to work for free, and you know what? we let them do that to us! </p>
<p>that being said, in regard to the question of career vs. family: many architects marry and have children. is it easy? no. but in general, the life rewards of a family trump the professional rewards. who ever lay on their death bed regretting that meeting you missed? and women in architecture are becoming more of a norm - but women in LEADERSHIP of firms are still in a minority. this generation of students have good opportunities for the future. 60% of the college students are women these days, and the number of women in architecture may be close to 50%. HAVE HOPE! :-)</p>
<p>It seems to me that archkid will not settle for the second best, so she needs to look at every aspect holistically. Yes, you will work your butt off in school, what's even worse is that you will work three times that hard if you are determined to be the best and learn from the best.
Three big lessons I have learned from my first-hand experience are:
1. Money will save you at least ten years of time. And traveling will broaden your horizon.
2. In order to SURVIVE in this business, a gal needs to be " a chick with a dick" to keep up with her male collegues. A Spartan lass is prefered.
3. "Architects are prostitutes." is no joke. At your best, you are a geisha.</p>
<p>Fallin, firstly, by using the term jeopardize, you're merely perpetuating what the gendered society wants one to internalize. And how do you explain the countless number of married and child bearing women architects who are famous? They didn't perceive marriage as a threat, but merely saw it as a one of the many social conventions that one must cast aside. Case in point, D Scott Brown, or Toshiko Mori</p>
<p>Scott Brown is married to Robert Venturi, another architect! The point is, it is almost impossible to form a marriage bwtween two equally strong architects. Maya Lin is also married, but to whom? Toshiko Mori, too, feels bad for not being able to pull more all nighters with her employees!
The stereotypical women architect is a superwoman who is not only outstanding professionally speaking, but also gorgeous as a lady, a mom and a wife! Forgive my shallowness, I haven't seen one women architect who meets the description above. This society simply demands more on women.</p>
<p>I am not "merely perpetuating what the gendered society wants one to internalize". My seemingly pessimistic entries were actually meant to present the reality and from there, we all can figure out a better solution to achieve what we want. Of course there's nothing wrong for wanting everything done perfect, it is just virtually impossible to do so. Even the headstrong and attractive women architects feel the same in their 30s and 40s, the price of prestige is so high that I think if one could rationalize and has the nerves to analyze the same matters from different angles, one should understand when it is time to move on.</p>
<p>Wait, why bring up the notion of architects marrying each other? I was merely talking about architects getting married in general. And while Mori does feel bad that she can't stick it out with her fellow employees (compromises), she's still 1) a successful and famous architect as well as 2) married. By deeming marriage a threat, it in some ways puts women off from even considering it (lest they want to "lose their place within a given company") I'm not calling for a "perfect" society (and in no way do I view this in an optimistic light), rather I just feel that by taking away the negative connotations of "marriage" it will allow others to openly consider their options. </p>
<p>PS. I don't think that there is even a stereotypical woman architect image. Society is still enamored with the stereotype of an architect in general as male.</p>
<p>PPS. Do you want to start a new thread? I feel bad impeding Sara's thread haha</p>
<p>First of all, I want to apologize for impeding Sara's thread. It is a time to start a new thread.
Stereotypical women architect? Oh yeah, there is! Michelle Pfeiffer's character in One Fine Day and Sally Field's character in Mrs. Doubtfire are just two examples. The similarities of those two fictional female architects are 1. They are good-looking, ambitious, super-busy, burnt-out professionals who obviously have Type A personality. 2. They have more than one kid. 3. Their marriages are not very successful, one is divorced, the other one is on the verge of breaking down.
At least, Hollywood has created a stereotypical women architect image!</p>
<p>Hey folks the new thread direction is fine with me. The sara show was getting kinda dull anyway. </p>
<p>I'd like to add a bit to this stereotypical females in architecture theme. I've met and hung out with two female licensed architects this spring, both because of connections to my high school. Not internationally acclaimed architects, (it's a small potato town), but proof that females can and do happily exist as architects. One is married with adult kids and has a mom and pop shop. The husband is also an architect but does no drawings whatsoever. He's sort of the shmmoozing frontman type, does all the bookwork and runs the errands. Frankly I think he's dead weight, but they are madly in love... She does mostly residential re-models and additions. They seem well off and happy. I saw all the drawings and cad stuff for a house that a classmate of mine lives in. They blew out the old kitchen exterior wall, converted the old kitchen to a billiard room for the dad, added a new playroom for the kids, a new very nice eat-in gourmet kitchen and really improved the access to the new rear garden. (I knew the house before). Nothing earthshattering but she really made the clients happy. I saw her hour log, but don't remember the total. I do remember the invoice the mom that lives in the house showed me, 18K (for the arch work, not the construction)... I think she's doing ok.</p>
<p>The other architect is a single (never married, no contact with the daddy) mom of twins, the girl is a sophomore at my high school and her brother goes cross town because of sports. I shadowed a couple days with her during spring break. She is a sole proprietorship shop, (subbing out the engineering) that does small light industrial and small commercial retail stuff. Said it's not heaven, it pays the bills and has allowed her to really take care of and participate in her kids since day one. Interesting thing is her clients are nearly all under fiftyish, she's given up on the older generation who go to other, male-only firms. My thinking here is it's another "step" in the movement of women into architecture. Gotta wait for the sexist dinosaurs to die off.</p>
<p>My point is, neither are star architects, yet both are shining examples of how marriage, kids, motherhood, business and life as a female architect can work out just fine.</p>
<p>-sara</p>
<p>Do you want to be a star architect, Sara?</p>
<p>What's your elimination today? </p>
<p>The most moving story I've ever heard in my life regarding the greatness of a women architect is that a male colleague of mine, a Cornell-educated engineer has once asked his mom, a Cornell-trained architect, "What is your most favorite work you have done by far?" She replied, " You." </p>
<p>My colleague's mom was educated at the best undergraduate arch school in the U.S., but her gender hinders her from getting a topnotch job in NYC. What happened next is sort like the most ridiculous kind of gold digging: she decided to find the richest guy within her reach and married to a Swiss banker/developer, my collegue's dad. Since she made that strategic move, she basically can choose to design whatever architecture she likes and make every dream happen! </p>
<p>At first, I thought her way of getting what she wants is ignoble, but who cares? She has a more comfortable life than any of her classmates. Plus, she has trained her son to be an excellent structural engineer.</p>
<p>However, I don't think most women have the asset to do what she had achieve, did I meantion that she was/is a freaking beautiful lady? Just remember, the Queen of Iran was once an architecture student too. (Another beautifully tragic woman)</p>
<p>Geez...until I read this thread, I didn't realize how badly my life had turned-out.</p>
<p>I am a 50 yr old woman architect; educated at a selective top-tier university in the late 70s; moved east for the job opportunities and passed the licensing exam in the minimum three years. I worked for a non-profit doing low-income housing and then for a small architectural firm where I was able to continue this type of work (my 5th year thesis subject) as well as be exposed to other types of architectural design. Eventually I began to specialize in interior architecture and left that firm to start my own small firm with another woman. We were (and the firm continues to be) very successful on a regional level (including awards and recognition) for interior design.</p>
<p>I also was able to own my own house, then marry at 30 (somewhat coincidently to another self-employed architect) and have two children. Like many mothers, I took about five years off from the workforce to spend full-time launching my kids. I sold my half of the business to my partner and then was able to return to the firm as an employee first part-time and then full-time. Most recently I have taken a position as a project manager for a regional owners' rep firm.</p>
<p>It's been a terrific life. We have not gotten rich or famous. But we are extremely happy with our decisions. I see alot more female architects today, than I did 25 years ago. I believe in the northeast at least, there is gender parity in salaries. Yes salaries are low and the hours can be lengthy (especially early in one's career), but you can eventually make a living as an architect. I don't know anyone who could be characterized as "burnt-out", not even small business owners.</p>
<p>Looking back, architecture as a career is not much different than any other. You work hard to establish yourself when you are young; at the same time you determine what part of the field interests you and you begin to specialize; you find a company that you like, with co-workers you respect; and you get on with the rest of your life. Women survive in all fields, the decision to marry and have kids, even if they take some time off. I actually believe that it may be easier as an architect.</p>