elite and preppy?

Colleges and Universities A-Z Williams College
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<p>I was reading about Williams in the "Student's Guide to Colleges" (fascinating read, btw, if you're looking for a totally biased insider's point of view of schools) and it said that students describe Williams in these five words: isolated, elite, preppy, outdoorsy, rigorous. One student also said "Truth be told, there are a lot of wealthy kids here. There are also a lot on financial aid. We don't talk about it, but the difference exists and we sometimes socially function by it." Does anyone know how accurate this reputation is? I really like most of what I've read about Williams so far, but I'm not sure how I would fit in if that were true...</p>

<p>Thanks! =)</p>

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<p>Sandheart, It would be accurate to say that ALL selective private colleges have a lot of wealthy kids. It would also be accurate to say that these schools are all trying very hard to change their demographics by attracting and funding diversity – including economic diversity -- and that the days of these schools being bastions of the rich and white are history. </p>

<p>Preppy literally means having gone to a prep school which implies a social and economic elitism. In fact, the top prep schools have also changed so that even though schools like Williams (or Amherst or Swarthmore or any of the ivies) may admit a good number of prep school kids, again, thye're not necessarily rich or white.</p>

<p>As far as the more intangible characteristics of “preppy” go, I’d say that Williams kids are fairly representational of college kids all over the country in dress, in politics, in spending money, in attitude. “Elite” is another one of those words that has passed it’s sell-by date. If you mean intelligent, talented, energized, engaged and lucky to be at Williams, then yes, they are elite. If you mean rich, white and your family sailed on the Mayflower, then that is no longer an appropriate descriptor.</p>

<p>I’m not sure what “we sometimes socially function by it” really means, but from my son’s experience I would say that friendships do not necessarily form along income lines. Actually, Williams’ isolated location is a great equalizer. There is very little to spend money on in Williamstown – no expensive shops, exclusive clubs or pricey restaurants. The on-campus activities are mostly free and everyone lives on campus so it doesn’t much matter day to day whether you’re a Rockefeller or just an average middle class kid on a budget. You’ll fit in fine.</p>

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<p>all right. thanks a lot!</p>

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<p>"As far as the more intangible characteristics of “preppy” go, I’d say that Williams kids are fairly representational of college kids all over the country in dress, in politics, in spending money, in attitude."</p>

<p>Most college "kids" across the country go to state schools or community colleges, come from families with average incomes of approximately $65k, work their way through school, and don't finish in four years. They can't afford to take unpaid internships in the summers, have never been abroad, and won't be while in college. Many of them are married, and have children of their own. The median age is higher than the average Williams graduating senior. "Spending money" is itself, for many college students, an elitist term.</p>

<p>The majority of students receiving financial assistance at Williams come from families with incomes between $92-$160k. Well over half don't qualify for financial assistance, with a median income way over $160k. The percentage that went to private schools is roughly 5X that of the rest of the college population. </p>

<p>As an alum, I'd say the words describing the school are right on the money. And I don't think there's anything wrong with that. You'll get a great education there; you should also know what to expect.</p>

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<p>Thanks for the sermon, Mini. I should have written "students who attend selective private colleges" as I indicated in my first sentence.</p>

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<p>Wow, 92-160k? Sounds good to me... Usually if your income falls between there, you're pretty much screwed when it comes to aid. I'll definitely be applying to Williams... not just because of the aid... but that certainly sounds good.</p>

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<p>Based on W's financial aid package, it is hard to see how a middle class family can possibly justify the Williams cost, regardless of how much financial aid they give to people with incomes over $100,000/ year. </p>

<ol>
<li> Any accepted student has a wide variety of options at other schools, probably all lower cost. Williams does not have to acknowledge true cost competition, because they have a rightful claim to providing an outstanding undergraduate education and a clientele that pays what the traffic will bear.<br></li>
<li> No AP credit, no clear outline of the full 4 year cost, questions about the cost and maximum loan amount claims made in their "viewbook" are unanswered by finaid dept.</li>
<li> Most W graduates go on to grad or professional school. How can a non financially elite family afford to do this with a big loan package to pay down?</li>
</ol>

<p>It's a beautiful place, a great school with a great sales pitch but unfortunately not affordable.</p>

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<p>Mickey;
You are absolutely INCORRECT about the Williams affordability!!</p>

<p>We own a home with equity, have moderate savings, our income is middle of the pack, but my D received an extremely generous financial package.
And we are thrilled!
The loan package my D received is less than $3K per year.<br>
I'm of the belief that the student should bear some of the financial burden, even if it's $12K over 4 years.</p>

<p>Like the web site states; "If you get into Williams, you can afford to go to Williams."</p>

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<p>rskibum: Williams does not offer everyone the great aid package that your D received. Although our family income is well under $160,000 per year, we got no aid (other than loans) for our S. When our D decided that she might like to follow her brother to Williams, they offered $7000 in grant money for our D and $8000 for our S. That would force us to come up with about $60,000 per year. When we complained that our D's offer was less than half what every other school offered her, they offered her $2000 more but implied that we were lying about our financial situation and said that they would require us to repay all of the grant money if they could prove it. So please don't make statements about how Williams is affordable for all. It is for some, but not for others.</p>

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<p>The only thing odd about this thread is the question mark. It should be an exclamation point. Of course Williams is elitist and preppy. That is the point. 60% of the students are from top rated prep schools and a large % come from families of multi millionaire, even billionaire levels of wealth. The majority of the students do not go to grad school either- most end up working in the financial district because Williams has huge legs there. In other words, it does not matter if you majored in History rather than Econ, it is the connections made at Williams that get you where you want to go. Rich students who’s parents give a lot of money get special consideration, just like athletes etc- of course. That is the very definition of elitism. </p>

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<p>OP, my low income AA daughter is thrilled and totally at home at Williams. She participated in many diversity ‘fly-in’ programs (before choosing Williams) so she could spend a few days on campus and really check out the culture. Williams came out on top for academics, music, outdoor life, general campus culture and numerous other intangibles she cares about. From the summer science program last summer to being elected to common council (incidentally a very large portion of the Williams student government is students of color) to the comraderie on her sports team, her entry, her spiritual fellowship, her amazing professors, you name it… I don’t think she ever wants to leave campus. Williams FA is carefully designed to eliminate subtle differences in opportunity based on SES. So, books are free for every single kid on any amount of FA. FA follows you for your study abroad. FA picks up health insurance and music lessons, provides laptops ( grants are expanded to include this stuff when necessary) and so many opportunities are offered and financed by the college. </p>

<p>I really wonder if anyone who thinks Williams is dominated by an elite mentality has been here recently. I’m actually on campus now for parents weekend and sure there are nice cars and badges of wealth, but it’s not a culture that values or celebrates those aspects. If you’re wealthy fine but that’s not why you’re at Williams and it’s just not a big thing. D’s roommate is from a family of 5 and all the kids are full pay in private colleges - do the math - in fact D’s family turned down the 2K in FA that Williams offered them! But there really aren’t any noticeable differences between D and her roommate. They have similar tastes in room decor, and similar neatness levels, are both athletes, and they help each other with classwork and picking out Friday night outfits. If you ask the roommate she’s say the main difference is my D is probably a better student, which is what matters at Williams. </p>

<p>As momrath said there’s nothing to spend money on at Williams so kids who really care about that stuff are probably at college in urban environments or at least not in the middle of the mountains. </p>

<p>@mini, anyone from a family with an income of 60K or lower will attend Williams for less than the cost off attending community college. If you qualify for work-study, Williams will pay you to do an unpaid internship. </p>

<p>@MickeyD, if you run NPC’s and can find a SLAC with better FA than Williams (except Swarthmore in the very lowest income ranges and even then the difference is only 1K/year) I’d be surprised. </p>

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<p>@PCVIRGINIABEACH your stats and claims about who attends Williams, and what they do after college are so extraordinarily wrong, I can barely bring myself to reply.</p>

<p>

Actually, 80% of all Williams grads earn an advanced degree, 75% within 5 years of graduating.

Actually the majority of Williams students come from public schools. Of the only 28% that come from private schools, certainly a number do come to Williams from “top rated prep schools”, but the number of students graduating from “top rated prep schools” in any given year is a tiny number relative to entering freshmen in US colleges and Williams shares this tiny privileged cohort with the top 20 universities plus Amherst, Swarthmore, Middlebury, Bowdoin, Pomona, W&L and dozens of other smaller privates plus some European universities. </p>

<p>Many Williams grads do go into finance (and often earn an MBA at some point) but equal numbers go into law, medicine, public policy and service, academia, research sciences, etc. Williams most famous department is Art History and students leave the college to pursue related work every year. Some Williams grads stick around and work in admissions or coaching. Some go to the peace corps or teach for america. Some go work at a bookstore or a newspaper or start a small business. Some go to divinity school. Just like at every college. </p>

<p>Facts of interest re: socio-economic Diversity
<em>53% of Williams students receive need based FA with the average award over 45K.</em>
20% of matriculated students at Williams have family incomes below $60,000.
17% of students at Williams receive Federal Pell Grants, which mostly go to students whose family incomes are below $40,000.
16% of the Williams study body are the first in their family to attend a four-year college. </p>

<p>Sure, some billionaires come through the purple valley but when half the students receive FA and the average award is a full tuition scholarship you can bet the billionaire kid isn’t creating the campus culture. </p>

<p>Some people confuse opportunity with elitism. Williams offers extraordinary opportunity to its students - equally, to all of them. If you have worked hard enough to get into Williams you will be afforded all the opportunities that come with the education and the degree. If some billionaire’s seed has greater connections or more privileged opportunities it isn’t because of his Williams experience, it’s because of his family. That would be there whether he attended Williams or not and whether you call it elitism or something else. </p>

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<p>Well done, honeybee63.</p>