@blossom, fair enough—but isn’t that the case for any college, though? A kid who’s interested in continuing Japanese would be ill-served by going to, e.g., Reed College. It seems odd to shoehorn that issue into being a problem with directionals in particular.
Agree with you 100%. But “directionals” was the example given a few posts above-- as if Pizza was the world’s biggest hypocrite for not sending her kid to a directional if she didn’t plan to force him into a lucrative career.
“My question might reflect the value of an elite education: Super riches send their kids to elite schools but how many of these kids want to become medical doctors?”
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“Super riches” send their kids where they want. They don’t NEED to impress others. They are the ones that others try to impress and befriend. Plenty of their kids don’t go anywhere near elite schools.
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Being a doctor is no longer the super high prestige, high money making career it used to be.
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Why would “super rich” kids want to be doctors at any level different from anyone else?
" Super riches send their kids to elite schools but how many of these kids want to become medical doctors?" - My guess is close to zero. But this statement is contradictory. As it happen, one does not need to go to Elite college in order to become an MD, this is NOT part of the medical school criteria for selecting their students, medical schools do not attach a special value to the elite education. I heard the same about law schools. The road to MD is so hard, there is NO reason under the sky for a rich kid to pursue it, unless this is some kind of enlightened idea from above, which is very hard to imagine…
@Much2learn
Wiki states: “An athletic conference is a collection of sports teams, playing competitively against each other at the professional, collegiate, or high school level. In many cases conferences are subdivided into smaller divisions, with the best teams competing at successively higher levels. Conferences often, but not always, include teams from a common geographic region.”
I don’t understand how an athletic conference is a useful way to compare schools for alumni salaries.
^^Probably because people insist on using “Ivy League” (an athletic conference rather than a singular and magical coalition of the best and brightest) as a synonym for “elite”.
I guess I didn’t realize that all “rich” kids have to follow the same path. How do they and their parents learn about said path? Is there an extremely expensive book that only “rich” folks can afford which spells it out? Or maybe they talk about it at the country club?
Seems to me two phrases with which human nature really struggles: We don’t know. And it depends. And around here those concepts seem to result in a lot of defensive responses, bragging and general talking past each other. Until the next time such concepts are raised again at which time the process starts anew as if its the first. Wash. Rinse. Repeat.
Accounting does have external accreditation for the education (AACSB) and external licensing for practice (CPA). This is similar to engineering, although in engineering, the external licensing (PE) may be less important in some areas, but the external accreditation for the education (ABET) is considered to have a high enough standard that earning a degree from even a “lowly” engineering school is considered a strong enough credential to enter engineering work (the general rigor of engineering education tends to keep the supply down).
Note that nursing and medicine appear to be similar in this respect, where the external accreditation and external licensing keep supply down and ensure a relatively high minimum standard for those entering the professions. Law is an exception (i.e. law school prestige is seen as very important), despite external accreditation for the education and external licensing for the practice, due to the oversupply of law school graduates relative to law jobs.
Lawyers have done a horrible job at limiting supply. And there is little/to no self limitation based on difficulty.
“And around here those concepts seem to result in a lot of defensive responses, bragging and general talking past each other.” - I believe that “around here” we just share our personal and our kids experiences. What else is valuable here? Everything else you could Google, absolutely everything, including ridiculously detailed technical stuff that you need for your work! Here we just brag, get defensive, talking past each other, what else is needed here? Are you really truly going to follow advice from CC?? I certainly hope NOT!!
I value posters opinions highly, and with some analysis of my own l try their suggestions selectively.
I don’t see any problem with bragging, defensive responses, or talking pass each other. If there is any problem it is because we cannot communicate with precision, e.g., when I say “super rich” I meant someone with $B or 0.1B+. Some may think $M is super rich. When some says “ordinary” kids, I think a 36ACT alone can be ordinary.
Not exactly the same definition of a word used by different posters makes CC rich of discussions.
I disagree with this. Not sure who counts as “super riches”, but if we mean families with high 8 or 9 digit or higher net worths then a fairly large fraction of them do send their kids to elite schools (at least in my experience, and it’s even more true if you count business school). These people are different than the “ordinary rich” person who’s worth a few million because they own a bunch of McDonald’s franchises.
Being able to send their kids to an elite school is actually one of the few luxury goods that they do value a lot - probably because it isn’t just for sale to anyone who has a fat enough wallet. It’s true that they don’t need to impress YOU - meaning the generic jagoff citizen - but they do need to impress the people that they want to impress. Like any parent, they want to get the “best” education for their kids, and they are able to send their kids to elite schools at a far higher rate than the ordinary schmuck can. It doesn’t hurt that their kids are on average fairly intelligent and accomplished and that they can use their wealth and influence to open elite schools doors (of course, it’s also in the elite schools interest to have the children of the elite attend). It’s also a way to quickly and permanently signal that their kids are at least somewhat intelligent and competent and to get them access to a good group of peers to date and possibly marry.
Just look at where the Obama’s, the Trump’s, the Clinton’s, the Bush’s, the Romney’s, the McCain’s, etc. sent their children to school. Look at where the Forbes 400 sent their kids. You will see elite school after elite school.
Definitely not zero. Probably a lot higher proportion than the average kid from the average family.
These people become doctors because they have a calling to help people and it’s challenging, beneficial work - they’re not doing it for the extra spending money. It’s also a noble, prestigious profession. The only pattern I’ve seen is that MD’s who are independently wealthy seem to become senior administrators at a higher rate than the average MD, but that’s just my own observation.
At the time D2 entered college, there were only about 6 or 7 schools which offered her very specialized major. None of them are “elites.” She wasn’t Ivy League material anyway, so there was no angst involved with her decision. She went to Big State U to get her degree, was accepted into the Honors college, and did very well. She is now in a JD/MBA program, with hopes to go into her desired industry well prepared and appropriately compensated. We will see how this goes. Several peers of hers who graduated from her program who got hired directly into the industry from undergrad were offered starting salaries in the low six figure range.
The idea that there is a small number of reasons why people come to this site is silly. There are a host of different reasons why people visit/post on this site. None more/less valid than the others. And those reasons often change over time.
As the difference in definitions increases, the discussion becomes less meaningful. Without at least some understanding of the level of differences in definitions being used, you have no idea where on the spectrum of meaningless to meaningful the discussion lies.
“Are you really truly going to follow advice from CC?? I certainly hope NOT!!”
I have gotten a lot of great advice and information on cc:. My kids have benefitted greatly from the knowledge of the parents here, and I hope I have been able to help a few people myself.
It is true that you can’t rely on every word. The key is to pay less attention to the opinion and more attention to the reasons, and perspective. Often posters disagree because they have very different experience and don’t realize that the situation can be entirely different in other people’s experience.
@Kiddydee Yes, the Ivy League is an athletic conference although the connections among the eight schools are clearly deeper than that. For one example, all eight release admissions decisions at the same moment (“Ivy Day”).
If Ivy League students do “earn more” as the OP’s query asks, then it is reasonable to think that if you compare them to other college Leagues/Conferences they should have very respectable results, and they do. It is interesting to me that while “Ivy League” is a household name, I am guessing that even on cc: the percent of people who can correctly identify the next two conferences by average salary is very close to zero. In second place is the Patriot League, and in third is the University Athletic Association. I have never heard anyone brag that their kids attends a Patriot League or UAA school by naming the League. cc:ers probably know most of the schools in these conferences, but not the conference itself unless they attended one of these schools. lol
The career they choose when they graduate seems to make a lot of difference despite probably having an opportunity to trade those careers. Kind of a duh but all graduates from top schools don’t make similar amounts of money at the time of graduation.
D told me what some of the different friends are making and some of those numbers are interesting. For example someone going to work at a top notch consulting firm is starting at 75k while one starting at Google is going to make 120k+ options totalling a first year package of 200k. There seems to be a huge disparity there. Based on the credentials, the two could have easily switched their employers.
@texaspg, really? You think that a philosophy major can just go and design algorithms for Google?
In any case, as people have said, focusing on starting salary first year out is an awful way to decide what to do. The experience you gain (or don’t) will be much more important.
It is- after all- a market. A labor market. Which has a lot of distortions to it so it doesn’t work as perfectly as a theory of market behavior would assume, but it works a lot better than many people realize (or like to concede). Hence- neurosurgeons make more money than nursery school teachers. This is not a social commentary on the worth of nursery school teaching, or the value we place on early childhood education. It is the result of a functioning labor market. Not like in Cuba where doctors and house painters all earn the same salary.
Someone choosing the consulting work over Google has made a rational decision. The folks who set payscales in a consulting work are aware of what Google is paying. There is more conscious decision-making going on here than random events.
I said no such thing. Please explain how you are interpreting similar credentials?
@texaspg, what are their credentials? Work experience?
Also note that the Google and MBB screens are not the same (and credentials are a first screen at most to them).