There are strange assumptions here that some schools have more opportunities than others. I am familiar with the very low ranked in-state public college in our city, it has ALL opportunities, that your heart desires. One does not need to be “aggressive in seeking out help” at the big public U. One just need to find a prof’s office and/or the room where Supplemental Instructions are held, step in and ask the question. Many hesitate not because they are timid, but because they are overly “proud” to ask. And this type of “pride” affects more males than females. Girls almost never hesitate to ask / seek help which is very widely available at absolutely ANY college, big, small, average, private and public. All other opportunities, for Research, trips abroad,…so forth are also there, contact the right people and you are in. More so, the Medical Research is available at the public in-state universities that do not even have a medical school at all. This is a great myth that opportunities exist only at Elite colleges, very far from it!
The same goes with assumption that the Google type of job is the only desired job out there. Again, very far from it. The job could be great even at the companies that are not so great. Every place presents the opportunity! I liked all of my places that I have forked. I have worked in IT department where it was only 2 of us, my manager and me and another where it was 300 of us at 2 different locations. Frankly, I do not even know the number of countries that my current IS department is located, I can roughly estimate that about 8 different countries, and we do NOT outsource, I am talking about our employees. All this Elite / Google hype is really not a reality for vast majority if IT professionals out there.
Some people seem to assume that Google hires only STEM majors. This is not the case. Yes, they certainly do hire lots of engineers and software developers, but the technology just gives them platforms for their core business, which is advertising sales. That’s the “money end” of the business, the part that generates the revenues and profits. It shouldn’t be surprising, then, that Google employs very nearly as many people in sales and marketing as on the tech side. And like any multi-billion dollar business, they also employ lots of people in accounting, finance, legal, HR, business strategy, and communications/PR. Given the nature of their business, they also invest heavily in visual design and operate their own in-house advertising agency. Some of these people have tech backgrounds, others don’t. As best I can tell, they’re all pretty handsomely compensated because Google’s business philosophy seems to be that they’ll pay a premium to get bright, creative people for any job category. Nor do they hire exclusively from a handful of elite private colleges. Google’s New York office alone—the second-largest in the company, after its Silicon Valley HQ-- boasts that it has employees from more than 400 colleges and universities worldwide. Google also has offices in places like Boulder, Austin, Madison, Ann Arbor, and Chapel Hill—college towns with good public flagships where they’re assured of a steady supply of high quality entry-level employees, but proof positive that you don’t need a degree from HYPSM to land a good job with Google straight out of college.
My impression is this is consistent with an entrepreneurial Silicon Valley business culture that generally values individual talent and skills over elite academic credentials. Certainly there’s a long, close symbiotic relationship between Stanford and Silicon Valley, but an awful lot of graduates of San Jose State have also carved out highly successful and lucrative Silicon Valley careers, as have people like my nephew who dropped out of Purdue after a year, headed for Silicon Valley, and never looked back.
Of course, Google doesn’t only hire STEM majors. That is a given. The frenzy of some kids these days to work at a place like Google or the idea that if you don’t go to Stanford, CMU, MIT, an Ivy, etc, to do so, you are doomed, is what is interesting. Luckily, that is a very small percentage of people. San Jose State seems like a good example of the kind of school that is placing plenty of their graduates well. But, you now have millions of people throwing out applications to Google, anyone who has ever coded or has a CS background, any kind of sales or marketing expertise. etc. or has a pulse for that matter.
Yes, PG, I remember you did not react to my Catholic “symbolisms” and I could not understand why. If I were to try that with Mrs. Canuck, a Catholic, she would have been really crossed. Those were the good old days.
My impression @Nrdsb4, rightly or wrongly, was formed over many years of posting here with PG, over many topic areas. It is a holistic process that does not rely heavily on any one data point.
This has turned out to be a truly excellent thread. Please continue
Okay, then perhaps it was inappropriate to use quotation marks when discussing an assumed POV, not actual words, that you attributed to her.
As usual, this topic is emotionally laden for many. I guess this happens in part because in some regions of the country one’s child’s college choice is seen as a public announcement of socio-economic status. My D had won a college scholarship sponsored by DH’s company, and the announcement of her name and the college she would be attending was published in the company newsletter. After that, several curious/peeved colleagues approached DH and said things like, "Your D’s going to Stanford? That school costs over $60,000! Is Company X paying you more than I think they are?"or “How do you do it? And your S attended an Ivy too. Did you win the lottery?” You see, as his co-workers in similar jobs, they had an idea of his pay scale and so were puzzled about the disparity in their perception of his socio-economic level and the college decision, which seemed out of his league. One guy was particularly suspicious and even wanted to know what kind of car DH was driving these days. Clearly they didn’t understand the concept of financial aid!
Still, one reason the elites are elite, of course, is the price tag–not just the difficulty getting admitted. And social class has been traditionally (though wrongly) linked with certain character attributes like good manners and morality. D2 just read about that in her AP English lit class. For that reason some people get all bent out of shape over this and feel the need to assert that their non-elite school kids are every bit as good as those Harvard jerks, etc.etc. and become angry at innocent parents because they just assume that people whose kids attend elite schools believe their kids are somehow better. It’s very strange. And they get so so angry that the assertions about elite schools start to get ridiculous, like the Ivies aren’t even good schools, they just give everyone who gets in A’s, the students who attend are socially maladjusted, etc.
“I guess this happens in part because in some regions of the country one’s child’s college choice is seen as a public announcement of socio-economic status.”
Only if one engages with other people. If there was any “public announcement” to anyone when my kids chose elite colleges, I’m oblivious to it. I can’t be bothered to worry about what other people think of me/my kids/their choices. If they don’t approve of them, tough toodles. Don’t people have jobs to occupy their time? Who has possibly got time to engage with parents of your kids’ hs classmates? Maybe they all had time to gab at Starbucks all morning long. I didn’t.
"One guy was particularly suspicious and even wanted to know what kind of car DH was driving these days. "
And presumably your H laughed, walked away, and refused to engage in this. It takes two to tango.
" For that reason some people get all bent out of shape over this and feel the need to assert that their non-elite school kids are every bit as good as those Harvard jerks, etc.etc. and become angry at innocent parents because they just assume that people whose kids attend elite schools believe their kids are somehow better. It’s very strange. "
And if someone says “oh, you must just think you are hot stuff because your kids go to fancy schools but my kids are just as good as they are and anyway all those kids at Harvard are a bunch of jerks” wouldn’t the appropriate reaction be to roll your eyes, realize the person is just a jealous loser not worth your time, and move on? Why would such comments eat at you? They are just nonsensical. They are said by dumb people. They aren’t worth getting upset over.
Cannot believe you took valuable time off from enjoying all these Jan Nepomucky statues to write this
Ha! It’s 4 pm and I’m back in my hotel room!
The title of the thread says “Elite/Ivy grads really do earn more?”
I am suggesting that the career choices people make can make a difference in the income irrespective of the school. If I gave an example that said one made 10k and another 20k, the example would still show that the income can vary.
There was a local kid (very very bright, represented spelling bee for Houston 2-3 years in a row) who made NMF and took a full scholarship including room and board from University of Houston. I saw him recently on public TV during the local spelling bee competitiions as an expert in discussions with the announcer. Turned out he flew in from Seattle to be part of program and the announcer introduced him as a guy who was finishing up his first year at Microsoft.
@texaspg, and again, it seems that you don’t have a timeframe of beyond a year. A perspective that I can understand in a high schooler but one I am truly puzzled to see in someone middle-aged. Not sure why I have to keep repeating myself, but if you look over a whole career, it’s not at all certain that starting out at Google rather than MBB is the more lucrative move.
@Pizzagirl “And if someone says “oh, you must just think you are hot stuff because your kids go to fancy schools but my kids are just as good as they are and anyway all those kids at Harvard are a bunch of jerks” wouldn’t the appropriate reaction be to roll your eyes, realize the person is just a jealous loser not worth your time, and move on? Why would such comments eat at you? They are just nonsensical. They are said by dumb people. They aren’t worth getting upset over.”
I completely agree with PG. We tried hard to find the best school for each kid. I really don’t care what other people think. Who cares?
It is hard for me to understand this cc: prestige concept. My two kids are at Penn and Lehigh. My mother remembers that the girls attend schools that are fairly close to each other, but she had never heard of either school. In fact, she still can not remember the name of either school. I have to refer to the girls schools by saying D1’s school, and D2’s school for her to understand. She thinks they are fancy because she thinks it is fancy for someone to go to college at all, not because of the school’s names. She can’t even remember the school’s names. lol
I bet many people recognize the name and are likely to say, “Penn State is a good school.”
People do make similar moves throughout their career. I chose not to pursue moves that gave me more income over the years because I valued time with family more. I am sure there are many middle aged people here who think “If I had taken this other job”.
"I bet many people recognize the name and are likely to say, “Penn State is a good school.”
Only occasionally. That only bothers me if they bring up Jerry Sandusky. I don’t enjoy being lectured about something that happened at a different school.
In Michigan, I have been asked “Why couldn’t the girls get into Michigan or Michigan State” and " Is she really ready for a four-year school." I have also been lectured about how much money a community college would save us. I don’t take offense at all. It is not malicious. It is the world from their perspective. Most people are trying to be helpful, even if is may not always seem like it.
@texaspg, except that that isn’t an apt comparison.
For some reason, despite me saying it several times now, it doesn’t seem like you are understanding that MBB isn’t necessarily less lucrative than Google over the long-term. And the hours at MBB are, if anything, the same or worse than they are at Google.
Is there some mental block here?
Given how fluid careers are, and how some careers our kids will have haven’t even been invented yet, you can’t really draw any conclusion from “first job.”
In addition, privately-owned / held companies can be exceptionally remunerative but they just aren’t “known” like, say, Google or Goldman Sachs. So what? Better to be under the radar anyway, making money quietly instead of being in a job where everyone can guess what you make.