This is indeed fascinating. There is quite a lot of truth in that article and intense elite competition in the US these days (though note: not always or exclusively over money), which is how we end up with Trump, his enablers, and sundry others, but did you note, @Canuckguy, the pretty obvious bias of that article writer? Or that “direct or indirect participation in the financial industry” is pretty much everybody in a modern capitalist economy? Note that he gave as examples someone who got rich by building a business and someone else who got rich by founding and selling a tech company.
I not sure why you two have such venom for each other than it’s pretty clear Pizza doesn’t like bankers. On the other hand the vast vast vast majority of parents would be deeply disappointed to have their S/D end up a HS teacher after attending an elite college. The experience does matter but so does the outcome when parents are being forced to spend huge sums on money paying for college. I’ve been to many events at elite colleges on both coasts and have yet to meet a parent who is hoping their child ends up a HS teacher.
Why use numbers from 10 years ago when US economy was in a unique state (on the brink of the subprime mortgage crisis)? If you listed numbers from 2009 instead of 2007 (after subprime mortgage crisis), then the results would look very different. In any case, it is important to note that doing a 2 year in an out program after college (see the article at http://www.vox.com/2014/5/15/5720596/how-wall-street-recruits-so-many-insecure-ivy-league-grads ) is not the same as pursuing a career in the field. Some do this to quickly earn money for school and/or because they think it will assist later career plans in the same way some might pursue a grad or professional degree, without desiring a career in academia. In the latest Harvard senior survey, only 6% said they planned a career (still doing it in 10 years) in finance and only 1% in consulting, which was dead last in the survey. Specific numbers are below.
**Harvard Senior Career Plans/b
Health – 15%
Academia/Education – 15%
Arts/Entertainment – 11%
Technology/Engineering – 10%
Entrepreneurship - 10%
Government/Politics - 8%
Law - 7%
Public Service/Non-profit - 6%
Finance - 6%
Other Business - 4%
Other Non-Business - 3%
Publishing/Media - 2%
Sports - 1%
Consulting - 1%
I just wanted to see this again. Because in that quote @Pizzagirl summed up how I feel. And how virtually all of the people I know or care to know feel about making decisions re. education, occupation, and life in general based on becoming or staying in the top 0.5% or whatever. It’s simply irrelevant to me. And I’m fine with that.
“the vast vast vast majority of parents would be deeply disappointed to have their S/D end up a HS teacher after attending an elite college.” That is certainly a shame, if that is what their kid wants to do.
My daughter’s favorite teacher in high school and her guidance counselor both were NU grads. I sure hope their parents aren’t “deeply disappointed” because both are well-respected professionals who are making a positive impact on the lives of teenagers in their community. And making a living wage (enough to place them securely in the upper-middle class if not the 1%). And apparently happy in their personal lives. What’s there to be disappointed about?!?
Absolutely nothing. It’s very revealing about values (or lack thereof) that some people only think an elite education is worthwhile if it catapults you into the 1%.
No it’s just about reality and whether or not the parent is actually paying the tuition. There is a very big income gap between a HS teacher salary and the top 1%. It just doesn’t make rational sense to spend 275k on college to become a HS teacher. It’s very easy to figure out whether it makes sense. Would you recommend to an 18 year old that they take on 275k in debt to obtain a job that pays 45-65k when you can get the same job with an education at a fraction of the cost. If your kid wants to be a teacher it would make far more sense to send them to the local state school and invest the money saved for their future. They would come out miles ahead. It’s exactly the same reason virtually no young doctors choose primary care. With large debts it just doesn’t make rational sense. Years ago college was cheap and the cost was minor but those days are long gone and therefore most parents have a different view. If you think I’m wrong at the next elite school function you attend just ask the other parents. I’m not sure how making an irrational financial decision has anything to do with one’s values.
Not sure if it’s due to my poor reading comprehension or I had to think long and hard about money this morning, I don’t understand this completely. I suspect someone who’s already in the top 0.1% or so and has $Ms set aside for their retirements, their kids, their kids’ kids has the confidence to feel that way. This also reminds me of a story of two people saying that they care less about where others went to college when in fact both are Harvard grads. I’m happy for those who made to the top due to their talents, luck, hard work, or even the ability to find tax loopholes. I hope my kids don’t need to worry about what I have to worry about and get into good schools as well. So far I’m succeeding and thanks in part to CC.
“There is a very big income gap between a HS teacher salary and the top 1%. It just doesn’t make rational sense to spend 275k on college to become a HS teacher”
My kids aren’t paying me back. If they want to go into jobs that pay $50k a year or $500k a year, what difference would it make to me?
“If you think I’m wrong at the next elite school function you attend just ask the other parents.”
I think I already know a few elite school parents, but thanks.
And I know of exactly one who is there because parents are pushing him to get the fancy banking job.
@SAY, that, of course, depends on what you pay and your circumstances.
Not everyone at a school like NU is full-pay, as you likely know.
Also, some folks have enough where they can already set aside for their grandchildren’s education and they know that what they don’t spend on their children’s education will certainly go to their children by inheritance. I can see how ROE isn’t a concern for those people.
But yes, if you are making too much to qualify for fin aid but where 270K (X2 X inflation) would make a serious dent in your nest egg & what you may be able to pass on, then I can see how 270K makes sense for certain career goals/schools/programs but not for others.
Luckily, even if you want to go away from home to be a starving artist, TCD, Bard Berlin, McGill, NCF, (as well as NMTech) are about in-state costs.
My kids went to state schools and even that was expensive. If someone wants to spend $200,000 + for their kid to attend an expensive private (for the experience or whatever other reason) and become a teacher , I fail to see how that is anybody else’s business, and definitely fail to see how that should translate into being " deeply disappointed." My kid selling drugs, being a predator, engaging in criminal activity in general, etc. would cause disappointment. Becoming a high school teacher? Ah, no. Not even close. That’s actually pretty absurd.
If we are talking about elite colleges, hardly anyone takes on that kind of debt. For example, Harvard’s website claims “100% of our students can graduate debt free”. College Scorecard reports 3% take fed loans, with an average loan amount of $6k among those few.
A place like Harvard has a combination of very generous financial aid policies for most and some very wealthy parents that can and will pay full price, if it comes to that.
I have known many elite grads ending up teaching high school, especially at Prep schools. Check out where the faculty of Phillips Exeter went to college. I doubt that any of their families were “deeply disappointed.”
http://www.exeter.edu/academics/72_faculty_list.aspx
I thing a re-read of the posts would be useful. Pizza if you are happy spending your money that way no one is saying you are wrong to do so. It’s your money so it’s your choice. However the vast majority of parents simply see it a different way and they also have fine values. They know that it’s a tough world and that it’s not an easy life financially to be a HS teacher especially if the child is capable of a more challenging career. I currently have two child at two of the big four while it’s true they have generous FA it’s also true that about 50% of families are paying full tuition. For the parents who are paying full boat but not truly rich(most of the 50% paying tuition) the ROI generally is going to matter for many reasons. Data10 you mention H. Have you ever attend a parent function there? If you sit at a table you will not hear parents talking about how they look forward to child landing a HS teaching job. Sadly the college experience has changed greatly from a generation ago and with the costs continuing to rise most families expect a return on their money. I’m sort of baffled that this would generate any controversy on a CC thread. If there was no income/life advantage then why would the ferocious competition for admission to the elite schools exist.
I know a LOT of millionaires who made their money in the energy sector, particularly the oil and gas business. Is that considered “direct or indirect participation in the financial and banking industries”? I also know many very wealthy people who work in the commercial real estate business, which I assume also falls under that umbrella.
“why would the ferocious competition for admission to the elite schools exist.” It doesn’t, except for a small percentage of students and their parents.
snarl please re-read the posts. I don’t remember anyone actually saying they would be deeply disappointed. Parents hope for best and always want the most for their children but in the end it’s up to the person to chose their career. I just said it doesn’t make financial sense to have a family pay full tuition at an elite private school and then have your child obtain a job where most of the workers went to local state schools. I mean from a purely financial perspective the local fireman is going to out earn the average grads of HYPS by a wide margin and that job requires only a HS diploma.