Elite/Ivy grads really do earn more? (new study)

Ellie check out the schools mentioned from this recent article. Educated affluent parents in high performing HS do not worry about gaining admission to the 35th-40th ranked school. It’s just a fact.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/30/opinion/college-admissions-shocker.html

Purple I can only surmise you have never had a child attend one of these schools. Please see CCDD14’s post who obviously does. These top athletes are common including some olympian level types though they are super busy 24/7. Winning the NCAA is a pretty high bar but the Ivies consistently field teams of both genders in many many sports that are ranked in the top 20 every year. I mentioned a few but there are many others. Purple you are just incorrect.

Men’s D1 Hockey
RANK SCHOOL OVERALL AWAY NEUTRAL HOME
1 North Dakota 34-6-4 13-3-1 5-1-2 16-2-1
2 Quinnipiac 32-4-7 11-1-3 6-1-0 15-2-4
3 St. Cloud State 31-9-1 13-3-1 5-1-0 13-5-0
4 Boston College 28-8-5 10-2-3 4-4-0 14-2-2
5 Denver 25-10-6 9-6-2 3-2-1 13-2-3
6 Providence 27-7-4 11-3-2 1-3-0 15-1-2
7 Michigan 25-8-5 7-3-3 6-2-0 12-3-2
8 UMass Lowell 25-10-5 7-5-1 4-3-1 14-2-3
9 Boston University 21-13-5 6-9-2 1-2-1 14-2-2
10 Harvard 19-11-4 8-3-2 3-5-0 8-3-2
11 Minnesota Duluth 19-16-5 7-8-3 2-2-0 10-6-2
12 Notre Dame 19-11-7 7-4-4 1-1-0 11-6-3
13 Yale 19-9-4 9-3-2 2-1-1 8-5-1
14 Northeastern 22-14-5 8-6-4 4-3-0 10-5-1
15 Michigan Tech 23-9-5 10-3-3 2-2-1 11-4-1
16 Cornell 16-11-7 6-5-4 1-1-1 9-5-2
17 Omaha 18-17-1 8-9-1 0-0-0 10-8-0
18 Minnesota 20-17-0 9-5-0 1-3-0 10-9-0
19 Robert Morris 24-11-4 9-6-2 3-2-0 12-3-2
20 St. Lawrence 19-14-4 5-7-4 0-1-0 14-6-0
21 Penn State 21-13-4 6-5-3 3-3-0 12-5-1
22 Dartmouth 18-16-1 7-9-1 0-1-0 11-6-0
23 Minnesota State 21-13-7 6-4-7 2-2-0 13-7-0
24 Clarkson 20-15-3 5-11-1 0-2-0 15-2-2
25 Rensselaer 18-15-7 6-8-4 2-2-0 10-5-3
26 Miami (Ohio) 15-18-3 6-12-0 0-0-0 9-6-3
27 Bowling Green 22-14-6 10-8-1 0-1-0 12-5-5
28 Ferris State 20-15-6 7-8-1 4-2-0 9-5-5
29 Air Force 20-12-5 7-7-4 0-1-0 13-4-1
30 Union (N.Y.) 13-14-9 6-7-2 2-1-0 5-6-7
31 Bemidji State 17-16-6 10-7-2 1-1-0 6-8-4
32 Ohio State 14-18-4 4-10-2 3-1-0 7-7-2
33 Holy Cross 18-13-5 7-7-4 0-0-0 11-6-1
34 Northern Michigan 15-16-7 4-11-4 1-1-0 10-4-3
35 Vermont 15-22-3 9-9-1 0-1-0 6-12-2
36 RIT 18-15-6 11-6-3 2-1-0 5-8-3
37 Mercyhurst 17-15-4 7-8-3 0-0-0 10-7-1
38 Merrimack 13-19-7 4-13-2 0-1-0 9-5-5
39 New Hampshire 11-20-6 6-11-3 0-0-0 5-9-3
40 Wisconsin 8-19-8 3-10-3 0-1-0 5-8-5
41 Army 14-15-9 8-6-2 0-2-0 6-7-7
42 Western Michigan 8-25-3 1-17-2 0-1-0 7-7-1
43 Colgate 11-24-2 6-13-2 0-3-0 5-8-0
44 Lake Superior State 14-22-5 7-11-3 1-2-0 6-9-2
45 Connecticut 11-21-4 6-7-3 0-3-0 5-11-1
46 Michigan State 10-23-4 3-10-0 2-3-1

OHmom they also have degrees in many culture studies that I won’t name. These types of degrees are helping to fuel the education tuition bubble. So what. Your daughter is at one of the two top LAC’s. After all it took for her to gain admission would you recommend to her to become a HS teacher? Would that allow her to reach her full potential as a educated person. As I said there really is no controversy.

You know that NYT Bruni piece is satire, right @SAY ?

SAY, you do realize that was a satirical piece, don’t you? Reading comprehension does not appear to be your strong suit.

You guys can’t be serious. The point was about the schools he mentioned which are always the same with minimal variation. Anyone can find dozens of these article in five minutes on google. OHmom you didn’t seem to want to answer my question but that is really at the heart of the matter. Being a HS teacher is a noble enough profession but no educated parents watch their child grow up with that as their aspiration. That’s all. There is no controversy.

Yes, that piece is obviously satire. I thought for a minute when I saw that article posted that maybe SAY was just messing with everyone, but I guess not.

Yep, Say says so it has to be true.

Here it’s the same

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/15/opinion/sunday/frank-bruni-how-to-survive-the-college-admissions-madness.html?_r=0

Well already a couple of educated parents have posted here that they are glad their child is aspiring to teach so it is really, really easy to prove that statement wrong.

Maybe you meant something else, like “I wouldn’t want my kid to aspire to teach and I can’t understand why anyone else would”. Then you might hear why some others do think that’s an awesome aspiration, and you wouldn’t be seen as insisting something is true when it obviously isn’t. The words you choose to " @SAY " do matter.

I have no idea what question you asked me that i am not answering.

From the article: * “She was turned down for early decision at her first choice, Claremont McKenna College.
For the general admission period, she applied to more than half a dozen schools. Georgetown, Emory, the University of Virginia and Pomona College all turned her down, leaving her to choose among the University of South Carolina, Pitzer College and Scripps College, a sister school of Claremont McKenna’s in Southern California.”*

Not a single HYPSM in that list. Do you read these articles you link, Say?

Ellie did you look at your high achieving child and think I hope she can become a HS teacher? The truth is just the truth. Hey but it’s a free world and people can choose what they want to do.

Oh wait I see it now, you didn’t tag me in it.

You think no one is majoring in these culture studies you don’t want to name? Guess what - people DO major in them, that’s why they exist there. You may not choose them, you may have an opinion about people who choose them but the fact remains, a number of kids who got into elite schools DO choose them. That’s just a fact.

My D will do whatever she wants to do, I won’t recommend teaching to her because I don’t think she’s particularly suited to it (I wasn’t, I tried it for a year, worked in NYC schools as an ed major - I then switched out to major in something you probably also think is dumb, but I wound up working in tech…so it goes). If she wanted to teach though? Heck yes I’d be happy for her. In this area teachers make plenty to live comfortably and have terrific benefits and obviously, most of the summer off.

No, because my philosophy is to let her decide what she wants to do with her life and support her endeavors to do so. I suspect that the ROI for an MD/PhD who wants to specialize in public health is not going to look good by any quantitative rubric you apply either. And it’s not brain surgery, as they say. But it’s her life. Not mine. My job is to give her the tools and the opportunities. Her job is to craft a life that she is proud of with those tools and opportunities. I’m good with that.

Of course the schools have other non-stem majors because the schools work hard to find a way to graduate everyone. I think we all ended up agreeing. As parents we can only guide and help our children so much and after that they will have to decide their own futures and lifestyles.

@SAY, the directional-type university I work at, which ranks fairly low in its region according to USNWR, has produced Olympians.

Heck, the small rather non-selective LAC Westminster College (the one in Utah) has produced scads more of them, to give just one example.

I really don’t get this bizarre sports aside and what it has to do with either the Ivies specifically or elites generally.

Nothing other than this a well worn pathway of admission to the very top schools since it can rarely be achieved on grades or score alone. I know a couple of dozen kids who gained admission to the top Ivies and Stanford and everyone but one did it through sports.

So, @SAY, would the idea that that point supports your claims be an issue of confirmation bias, or of observation bias?

There’s something that’s missing in this discussion. Whether an elite college graduate becomes a HS teacher or a software engineer in Google is not all about personal “choice”. For some/many elite college graduates, certain high paying jobs are essentially not possible to them because they either don’t major in the right majors for the jobs or haven’t made the grades or built the profile that’s attractive enough to the hotly pursued companies that receive huge numbers of job applicants each year. On the other hand, some high paying jobs (an analyst in finance or consulting for example) are open to graduates of many different majors and sometimes welcome students with solid liberal arts education. So, just because some elite college graduates become HS teachers upon graduation doesn’t mean they actually “chose” to. And just because some get the high paying jobs (which are rare for new college graduates) initially doesn’t mean they will stick to them for the rest of their life. And those who wouldn’t or couldn’t get them may end up there later after a graduate degree or a few years of good experience in another industry…

dfb once again there is no controversy here. It is a fact that being an athletic recruit is the best hook for admission. panpacific I would agree with your statement.

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…being an athletic recruit is the best hook for admission.

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Isn’t that simply an uninteresting statement, though? I mean, that isn’t the case for elite (however defined) colleges, that’s the case very nearly anywhere.