After all, the residency program decided that the doctor got a strong enough education from their med school.
How many patients choosing physicians even look at residency of the physician, or know anything about which one may be “better”?
In this thread: parents whose kids had/have no chance at Ivies telling us how overrated they are.
Examine motives. If you lack elite bonafides, don’t harp on and on about your glorious state school experience. It’s like driving a Honda Accord and telling folks what a waste a new Mercedes S-Class is.
You’re a brand new poster (allegedly). How do you know which of us on this thread did or didn’t go to elite schools, and/or have kids who did?
And hopefully you see the difference between saying “Ivies are overrated” and “Ivies are great schools but they are not the only 8 great schools.”
I might as well join the party.
D1 is working in finance. Most of her analyst entering class went to a top 20 schools.
D2 was a philosophy major. She is working at a 2 year law related internship where they only recruit from top tier schools. This year they made offers to 3 people - Stanford, Columbia, Cornell. D2 was from the lower tier school.
Nobody that sinks day after day railing against elite colleges on a message board has any affiliation with an elite college. It’s science. Therefore your point is moot and your motivations are anything from jealousy bitterness insecurity or maybe, naivety.
The way D2 got the internship was by contacting her sorority sister who was already working there, and the sorority sister put her resume forward.
How do you figure? I love elite colleges. I went to one, married someone from one, and sent both my kids to elite colleges (top 12 research U, top 10 LAC) Can you clarify exactly who didn’t go to an elite college, since you’re so knowledgeable for a newbie? TIA!
“Therefore your point is moot " - Very funny!! I thought we are here just sharing our experiences in supporting one point or another. I was so wrong!!! Apparently, we are determining here who has a superior background in comparison to others. This is an impression that this thread creates.
Who cares if your kid went to Elite, Ivy, or the lowest ranked UG. We did not care to the point that we did not check rankings at all. Was not important to us. It is not to say that everybody should do the same. But why call somebody “sinking” if a person happen not to care about any of this ranking hoopla?
Do posters here realize that many of these people who by definition on this thread are full of “jealousy bitterness insecurity or maybe, naivety.” became MDs, lawyers, successful engineers, MBAs, CS professionals, pharmacists,…etc? No way it is possible, right? How come, if they did not have Harvard on their resume or had " any affiliation with an elite college”.? Not even lowry Berkeley or Notre Dame?..I must be living in a different universe.
@PurpleTitan @MiamiDAP : It does actually seem that many medical schools or health profession schools do not leave much room for error and DO NOT take into account actual rigor of even the STEM course load. So many students will do the bare minimum or select the easiest/easier instructors there (whether at an elite institution or not) due to the risk of damaging their GPA. However, those who take more difficult courses and instructors and are successful appear to have more access/higher chances to higher ranked MD programs and certainly to MDPhD programs (where you need some resilience to carry on. They want to ensure that people will complete it). The only risk of doing the bare minimum is that it may be more difficult to prepare for the MCAT and perhaps a lower score than could be obtained otherwise. Pre-med looks like some optimization game for those who aren’t the truly ridiculous ones at these elite schools who can manage all the EC’s, be successful in harder than normal STEM and non-STEM instructors, etc. Mere mortal pre-healths should likely have a balance of finding classes (especially STEM) that they like that are with more challenging than average instruction and maybe balance it out with others that they find less important with more average or standard levels of instruction. They can get the training in many areas while keeping the GPAs competitive. One problem with elite school academics is that the harder instructors tend to have harsher curves AND more challenging content and exams. Despite the incoming credentials of the students, the mean on these exams may not even be a passing grade so they must be curved. For some students, that is a very uncomfortable position to be in (them having to get used to seeing lower scores and maybe being in the middle of the pack for a course. Why not take one where everyone is at the top end of the score range).
I’ve also witnessed cases where the less motivated students in one subject choose one instructor who has easier content and exams, but still has low averages. So some top performing students will go there and just ride the curve. Especially in the second semester of sequence courses. There are many games to be played behind the scenes and the very top performers will be okay regardless of what they do.
However, a thing that I’ve noticed, especially at the elite school I attended, that these more difficult courses and instructors usually are far better mentors and are gateways to unforeseen opportunities or amazing rec. letters if you put forth a solid performance and this certainly pays off in the long run. Engaging this route a decent amount of times really enhances learning outcome and of course gets you your money’s worth.
Um, I don’t see anyone “railing against elite colleges.”
Anyway, I’m pretty sure PG and her children have no reason to be jealous of elite school grads. Your points just strengthen post 103.
(Re 105)
“How many patients choosing physicians even look at residency of the physician, or know anything about which one may be “better”?”
They SHOULD look at residencies although most probably don’t. As for knowing which residency programs are better, you can often use medical school ranking/prestige as a reasonable surrogate for residency quality. Big name medical schools often have top residency programs too.
So as a general trend in picking a surgeon for your operation, you’d likely be better off to choose the doc who went to Obscure State U Medical School followed by a surgical residency at one of the big Harvard hospitals over a doc who went to Harvard Medical School followed by a residency at some minor, small-town hospital.
Another reason why this is useful is that the quality of the residency program often signals how well the doc actually did in medical school. Since the big name residencies usually pick the best of the new grads, you can be pretty sure that the new doc from the minor medical school who gets into the top residency program did so because he/she had top med school grades and other sparkling achievements. But the doc whose trajectory was to the other way around probably graduated in the bottom half of his/her medical school class.
A quick look at the physician directories of some local large medical groups (looking at primary care physicians accepting new patients) finds that most did their residencies at places that are unlikely to be known (unless local, or a Kaiser hospital), and whose names do not indicate a university or medical school.
Also, don’t some hospitals associated with big name medical schools have more generic sounding names (e.g. Massachusetts General Hospital)?
I sure hope you don’t have your heart set on an elite.
You want the best doc for you, not the best paper hanging on the wall. Even the residency doesn’t tell you the care you’ll actually get, just the training. It doesn’t tell you if you’ll be a number, one of thousands that doc squeaks into his or her schedule. (In some cases, being a number does…not…matter. In other cases, it does.) Being a great doc ends up about the individual. And in surgery, about the team and the facility. It can even matter where you are, what the medical/intellectual climate is that supports them and keeps them current.
Sure, I look at backgrounds. But as just one part of their qualifications to treat me or my loved ones. The renowned cardiologist with the right papers, the right conference lectures, et al, missed what the state school educated/local residency doc found, for my mother. One of my docs was a Yale resident, under a brilliant mentor- and not great with anything beyond his narrow interest.
Doctors have high rates of drug addiction, suicide, and self-harming. If I were undergoing major surgery, I think I’d care about sobriety and steady hands more than I would about decisions he or she had made at the age of 17.
“Also, don’t some hospitals associated with big name medical schools have more generic sounding names (e.g. Massachusetts General Hospital)?”
Yes. Since you know this to be true, you can simply state it in a declarative sentence; there’s no need to put it in the form of a question.
“It can even matter where you are, what the medical/intellectual climate is that supports them and keeps them current.”
A doctor who keeps up with literature, perhaps has an appointment as a lecturer or prof at a teaching hospital, is far more valuable than the doctor who went to Harvard (undergrad or med) and doesn’t keep up.
Folks, all you have to do is ask doctors who they reco for their family and loved ones. They know who is good and who isn’t, and their college has little to do with that. High school students erroneously think that “Harvard Med” (or JHU) is the be-all-end-all. Doctors don’t think that way.
A neighbor of mine is a surgical nurse (she’s in her late 50’s, so has been in the game for a very long time) and will say diplomatic things like, “Did you get a second opinion from someone at XYZ?” to friends who mention an upcoming procedure. I assume that’s her way of communicating that someone might be getting alcohol counseling or shows up late and unprepared for surgery; or even who leaves midway (yes, it happens) to take a personal phone call which is NOT an emergency. Sometimes it’s “the little people” who know the score.
“Sometimes it’s “the little people” who know the score.”
This is definitely true. The nurses in a burn/reconstructive surgery unit can sure tell you which surgeons have the top talent and which ones are mediocre. They can tell from years of having seen their patients’ results.