Elite University Financial Unfairness

<p>The problem is that the higher your income is, the more likely it is that the FA methodologies will be wrong in how much your family can contribute. For instance, most methodologies seem to say that a third of every dollar made after ~$50,000 can be put to college. This means a $140,000 family will be expected to use $30,000 of their income, whereas a $80,000 family will be expected to use $10,000 of their income. The reality though is that colleges should really only expect 20% of every dollar made after $50,000. This would mean $18,000 for the $140,000 family and $6,000 for the $80,000 family. As you can see, there's a $12,000 discrepancy for the $140,000 family, but only a $6,000 discrepancy for the $80,000 family. This means the kid from the $80,000 family will have a much easier time making up the difference from outside sources like student loans.</p>

<p>Also, one more thing: higher tuition prices actually level the playing field. Right now, a lot of college campuses are about 50/50 in terms of those on financial aid and those not on financial aid. What this means is that 50% of the campus is having every dollar of its EFC extracted, whereas the other 50% is having its education subsidized essentially because they're paying less than what their EFC would be. (If they were paying what their EFC was, they'd be on financial aid). What about if we raised tuition to $1,000,000, but we continued to meet 100% of demonstrated need? This would mean that pretty much every family that sends a child to the college would be submitting financial information and instead of only 50% having their full EFC extracted, probably 99% would be having their full EFC extracted.</p>

<p>I agree there are some issues with the current finaid system. One being that it's based on your last year's taxes and income. You may have been earning that income for just one or two years. But the part you need to understand is that the formula does not mean you are expected to contribute just dollars from income. The EFC includes 3 sources: current income, savings, and borrowing. People often say, "Do they expect us to sell our house?" No, but they do recognize that owning a house with equity gives you borrowing power.</p>

<p>
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"Don't make a decision based on finances...our finaid is so generous we will make you afford it" when in actuality that is not true all of the time.

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The problem is not with the schools' statement. It is with "your" interpretation of it. You hear this statement with "you" as singular - referring only to the student. The colleges mean this statement with "you" as plural - referring to the family. So what they're really saying is "we will make it so that your family can afford it." And if you read the websites rather than just listen to the dog & pony shows, and did your research and homework, you'd know that.</p>

<p>Obviously you'd know that by going on website, that's how I found out. However, and this is a big however, colleges should not send that deceptive message, especially at their admit weekends. It's still disingenuous. Not many people can come up with their EFC. This message makes people think they can go in and "negotiate" FA when only sometimes that is the case.</p>

<p>My biggest misunderstanding was that loans beyond the Stafford and maybe even including Stafford were considered aid and helped to "meet need." I do understand that the Stafford terms etc. are better than private loans but a loan is a loan and you are paying it back no matter what the terms.</p>

<p>I agree with Blue Jay on the loans- a loan is not true aid, it is merely delaying the pain. My D, who is now in grad school, did not apply wisely and ended up with a financial safety and some loan heavy packages, I am so glad we did not engage in magical thinking, that things would change, that money would come in to cover loans, etc. Things are no better now than they were before and we still would struggle to pay those loans.</p>

<p>A loan is not true aid.</p>

<p>My only advice would be to find another university to attend. You mentioned MIT so I am assuming you might be interested in engineering. Trust engineering is truly a field where you can attend a 'less prestigious' school and still come out on top. You can always try to attend these universities in grad school. Grad schools often have fellowships or other research assistant programs that will pay for your education as well as a living stipend. Do not let the rankings get to you!</p>

<p>lgellar, that is not the model financial aid operates on. Increased tuition from 50% does not cover scholarships for the other 50%. There's gaps, merit aid, loans.
The trend has been tuition keeps going up and loans keeping going up, Higher tuition is not funding new scholarships, it's be funding many projects by colleges.</p>

<p>I just came from a private university out in the midwest. While I was there, they raised tuition, eliminated one of the scholarship honors programs and eliminated academic improvement scholarships. They claimed it would increase funds for need-based scholarships. But the school did not raise their cap on need-based grant aid. Poor students, already at the maximum level, had to come up with an extra 2K from outside sources to return.</p>

<p>Of course that's linked to the trend of expanding merit aid for higher income students. According to one study, institutional aid increased 16% for high income students, 5% for middle income and 3% for low income between 1993 to 2000, another peak period of raises in tuition.</p>

<p>OP, you've not said why your parents are refusing to pay. If it's family friction, that's one thing. But it might be that your parents aren't aware of just how much college costs, how financial aid is awarded, and how colleges assume that parents will be helping to pay. Are they aware of all of this? You may want to have them run a sample FAFSA calculator to see what your family's expected EFC is. If they're anything like most parents, the reaction will be stunned incredulity, followed by "well, that's for all four years, right?", followed by more stunned incredulity. </p>

<p>Even if your parents are unable/unwilling to pay $50k a year, they may be able to pay something. Covering an amount equal to attending your instate public is one typical arrangement. Some students make up the difference by taking out loans; others look for schools where they can receive merit aid to cover the gap between parental contribution and COA.</p>

<p>My parents make enough money so that I would not receive any aid at HYPS(sorry piccolojunior, they do not fail). They have always made me pay for my own things and I am very glad for it; I look around at 95% of my peers who have virtually no concept of how to save/earn/spend money and I know that my financial abilities will help me a lot in the future. I am certainly not asking for a full ride, or for money to be taken away from the families who absolutely require the money. These schools say that about 80% of their students are on financial aid of some sort, and I am sure that it would not bankrupt Harvard to at least help the individuals in the last 20% who happen to be in a situation similar to mine. Regardless, this system is unfair to ME as an individual even though it is fair for my family.</p>

<p>Igellar, there are many things unfair in the system. The reality is that a family making close to $60k is going to have to scrounge like crazy to come up with the $10k in expected contribution, a heck of a lot more than families making twice that who have to come up with their monies. Tehotherside put it well when he says the system is very unfair to many, many individuals. The problem is that though there may only be 20% (a figure I am just taking from his post) in that situation, the number will skyrocket once there is a loophole given to such students. Also, colleges like H that are really not the main concern as they only have the teeniest number of kids affected, and such kids have many, many other options available to the point of embarrassment of riches. It is the kids with not so stellar test scores that often do not qualify for merit awards or even entry into schools that can even meet the family needs that are often hurt. Some of these kids would truly benefit going to college away as home sometimes has serious problems, but the schools where they will be accepted do not even pretend to meet need.</p>

<p>Would be interesting if the OP's parents attended college and if so, where and who paid for it? How were they able to gain the financial stability they have achieved? I agree that having your children pay for many of their things from an early age is the way to go. Difficult to see your friends getting everything handed to them but it's a policy we have in our household. It does PAY in the long run. At the same time, as we value the ability and experience needed to balance a budget and manage one's own spending, we also value education.</p>

<p>There seems to be a misconception that the FA methodology assume a certain percentage of your past year's income only. The reality is that families are EXPECTED to save for years. You are NOT supposed to be able to pay the current year EFC out of current income.</p>

<p>OP - your problem is not with the FA system, but with your parents. They have the money but refuse to pay. Why should you then get FA just because your parents won't help? This would penalize other families who saved money like they were supposed to and are willing to pay. THAT is not fair.</p>

<p>You and your parents should have talked about this long ago. You probably have to look at different schools. Trust me, once your get your first job no one really cares where you got your undergrad degree. There are plenty of affordable schools out there.</p>

<p>You are not entitled to anything in this world just because you think something is "unfair". Life is hard - get a helmet.</p>

<p>My parents went to San Diego State University. They both worked to pay for their entire tuition, which was a much smaller sum.</p>

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You are not entitled to anything in this world just because you think something is "unfair". Life is hard - get a helmet.

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</p>

<p>By the same logic, let's get rid of the entire financial aid system. People who make little money shouldn't be entitled to an elite education even though they feel it is unfair! Life will be hard for them, but we'll buy them helmets.[/sarcasm]</p>

<p>The way we look at college is the way we look at high schools. It is the parents' choice, not the kids', for the most part. That may help you understand the system a bit more. Until you are 24 or meet some other requirements, college is up to your parents, not you.</p>

<p>I knew from a very young age that my parents were not going to contribute to my education. That knowledge affected where I attended college and what major I chose (needed to be able to earn $$$ to pay off loans). I resented it at the time, and I made sure my children will be able to attend any school they want. It is unfair to an individual in this situation, but we all have our trials in life.</p>

<p>OP -</p>

<p>Now that you've got this off your chest, you need to find out just exactly what your parents will help you pay for. When you know that, you will be able to develop a strategy for completing your college education. Believe me, HPYSetc. aren't all that. Your parents went to SDSU and have made good lives for themselves. Where you graduate has much less importance than who you are on the inside. Even if you "only" graduate from your parents' alma mater, your life can turn out just fine.</p>

<p>Wishing you all the best.</p>

<p>OP, I think you may be in some luck. I've seen some of your stats, which are extremely impressive. Granted, you may not be able to afford HYPSM but if you look at their peers like Duke, Caltech, UChicago, and WashU, Vandy, Emory, Rice etc. I think you'd be very viable for a full tuition scholarship at these schools which would make paying for college a lot easier. If you're willing to look at schools a little lower look at great schools like USC, you will almost certainly get a full scholarship there and it is in not much of a step down. If you still live in California I'm pretty sure you'd be in for the maximum scholarship at the UC's. A 2400 and 800's on several SAT II's will go a very long way towards $$.</p>

<p>If your parents are truly unwilling to pay for your college (something that FAFSA, Profile or your college could never ever know - they can only estimate a family's ability based on financial models), they might be willing to co-sign your private education loans. Coming from a well off family is sure to help qualify you for the loan and better interest rate than most other students. Maybe some support from an aunt or uncle or a paid internship from family friends.</p>

<p>Good luck on your college search and financing. Outside of HYPS, the nearly every college offers inadequate financial aid, even for the poor first generation students FAFSA and Profile "favors".</p>

<p>What if frustrating about the way financial aid is calculated is that it 'punishes' those who save. If you go into the Princeton Financial Aid Calculator and play with numbers you will see. A family that makes over $200K a year and 'blows' it all (expensive vacations, clothes, TVs, cars, boats, etc.), can get a decent amount of financial aid in the form of grants not needing to be repaid. If that same family lived more modestly and saved money from their large income for several years (depending on how much they saved in total), they would not receive any aid whatsoever. (However, they would be eligible for on campus jobs and loans.)</p>