<p>For those that declined USC for Berkeley, WHY? Did you guys do it for your major, the school's reputation, chances of landing a better job uppon graduation, or student diversity? Not to sound racist but most people say Berkeley is dominated by Asians, not making Berkeley as diverse as it claims to be. Can somebody please comment. Thanks.</p>
<p>1) Major: Yeah, Berkeley has a better business program than USC. But USC comes close. I did a lot of research on CC and other sources to come to the conclusion that Berkeley's business program would be better for me.</p>
<p>2) School Reputation: Hate to admit it, but yes also. I enjoy saying that I am going to Berkeley more than I would if I were saying I am going to USC. Also, USC admitted too many people, who I thought weren't so smart (no offense), from my school. It made it less gratifying to say I am going to USC, if you know what I mean? I mean.. "#1 Public University in the WORLD?"</p>
<p>3) Career: I'm sure you could find a good job either way. In fact, Berkeley has grade deflation.</p>
<p>4) Student diversity: USC beats Berkeley for this. I remember reading that USC accepts students from the most different countries. Yet, it still accepts many from Southern California also. Yet, I don't care much about diversity, and not to sound racist, but I love Asians.</p>
<p>5) Cost: This was one of the main reasons why I chose Berkeley over USC. My family does not have financial problems, but who wouldn't enjoy an extra 20,000$ a year?</p>
<p>Other factors for me included location (around USC vs SF), admissions (USC was far friendlier and more concerned), and school size (USC is smaller = better)</p>
<p>BTW, I'm not suggesting one over the other. Both have their own pros and cons. I am still not sure if I made the right decision. I know people who rejected Berkeley for USC. It's really up to yourself to decide.</p>
<p>I'm not a student at Berkeley, but I can say this.</p>
<p>Why choose Berkeley over USC? Better faculty (Berkeley's faculty is on par with Stanford's and Harvard's). Better programs (top-10 departments across the board; there isn't anything that Berkeley is actually "weak" in). Stronger library (roughly 11 million volumes, 3rd largest in the US). The classes aren't smaller at USC. Berkeley and USC are about the same size in student body. Berkeley is substantially cheaper for in-state students. The city of Berkeley >>> the area that USC is in. Berkeley has more national and international prestige. I'd say Berkeley is a tad bit harder to get into and manages to attract slightly stronger students, partly because of its reputation.</p>
<p>Re: diversity, Asians don't dominate (as in, make up the majority); Berkeley is 40% Asian. In addition, it's roughly 12-13% Hispanic, ~5% black, ~1% Native American. Now, "Asian" encompasses everything from Japanese to Cambodian to Malaysian to Chinese to Korean to Indian to Pakistani. "Asian" in and of itself has tons of diversity. In fact, if you look at it by culture--which is the ultimate goal of diversity in a college setting, not really ethnicity--"Asian" tends to mean much more cultural diversity. Why? Because Asians tend to retain their cultures--the language, the food, the customs.</p>
<p>So let's look at USC. It's 50% white. How is that "more diverse"? Most of the time, white students don't retain their European cultures. They usually don't speak the language, don't know the foods, don't know the customs. So how is that any more diverse? Isn't having more non-white students (in other words, minorities--which includes Asians as well as Hispanics, blacks, and so on) preferable? You might argue that USC better reflects the US population. But if that's the goal of diversity in a college setting, then the ideal student population would be (this includes overlap): ~80% white, ~4% Asian, ~13% black, ~15% Hispanic/Latino (of any race), ~1% Native American. IMO, that is far from ideal. I wouldn't even apply to a college that's 80% white. It isn't racist--I just prefer to have more students from diverse backgrounds.</p>
<p>So, if you accept the argument that Asians (blanket term for ALL of Asia, which is the most populous continent and spans tons of countries) bring more cultural diversity than do their white counterparts, then USC is even less diverse than Berkeley. I don't buy the whole "USC beats Berkeley in diversity"; that clearly isn't the case.</p>
<p>Just my personal preference, but I'd choose Berkeley over USC any day.</p>
<p>
[quote]
and school size (USC is smaller = better)
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Sorry, celsius_233, but you've fallen prey to the stereotypes as well. For one, USC isn't much smaller than Berkeley--USC has 33k-34k students. Berkeley is about the same. For another, small does not always mean better. Try UC Santa Cruz--13,000 students, and yet its classes are much larger than Berkeley's. Heck, Cornell has larger classes than Berkeley (it has 60% under 20 / 16% over 50, whereas Berkeley is 62% / 14%).</p>
<p>Agreed with the above, though, re: acceptance letters. I'd heard Berkeley's was really poetic and pretty, but when I finally saw it, I was rather disappointed. It didn't really make me feel good about getting in. I didn't apply to USC, but Stanford's was amazing.</p>
<p>...oops, forgot I was in bear territory. :p</p>
<h1>783 Nope, Asian does not include the entire continent since middle eastern applicants are considered white.</h1>
<p>Do USC students get more attention than Berkeley students then? Cus I feel like I haven't gotten much.</p>
<p>Re: to kyledavid80:</p>
<p>You mention that Berkeley's faculty is on par with Stanford’s and Yale's, but reality is those students never get to see them because TA's are the ones giving lectures. The only time Berkeley students see this great faculty is the first day of class and on finals. </p>
<p>On tuition, yeah USC is much more expensive but it's known that California students, which is all Berkeley accepts, get much more aid for USC from financial aid and grants from USC. Therefore, students actually end up paying about the same if not less than they would for Berkeley.</p>
<p>On Berkeley being harder to get into, both schools are at about 23-25% acceptance rate. </p>
<p>City of Berkeley over L.A., you have to be kidding. Yeah the area right outside USC is pretty ghetto but 2 miles away you have Beverly Hills, Hollywood, beaches, museums, some of the best restaurants and clubs in the world, and the list goes on. Berkeley is known for its university not for the city. </p>
<p>Re: Asian issue. I love Asians, especially right now that we get to see all these hot Asian cheerleaders dancing around in the Olympics. However, you mention that Asians bring much more diversity because of their food, language, customs, but some things you forgot to mention were that Asians are extremely shy and don't talk to anybody outside the Asian ring. I don't find diversity in looking at a group of Asians talking a language I can't understand and eating a bowl of rice. Also, we know Asians come from many different countries, but the majority of Asians that go to Berkeley are from the San Francisco gold rush in the late 40's. It seems only students with Asian background will enjoy that diversity they bring. </p>
<p>Even if USC has more American kids, believe it or not many students will find more diversity in knowing students from other states like Alabama, NY, CA, Texas, Ohio, and so on. I just believe that Berkeley needs to do a better job in balancing other minorities like African Americans, Latino/Hispanics, and more out-of-state and international students wont hurt the diversity thing either.</p>
<p>All in all, I believe both schools are great and one should be honor to get accepted to either one. :-)</p>
<p>
[quote]
Nope, Asian does not include the entire continent since middle eastern applicants are considered white.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Uh, what?</p>
<p>Asia</a> - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia</p>
<p>As far as I've known, even Middle Eastern students are considered Asians.</p>
<p>
[quote]
but reality is those students never get to see them because TA's are the ones giving lectures.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>What are you talking about? TAs lead the discussion sessions, not the lectures. And even then, Berkeley has over 2,000 professors. You don't honestly think that students can't get faculty attention, do you? Consider that professors have office hours and most students just don't take advantage of them. And as you get into upper-div classes, you have even more professor contact. If you're aggressive in your large classes, you can there too. As said 62% of Berkeley's courses have fewer than 20 students, and only 14% are over 50. That's the same as MIT's.</p>
<p>
[quote]
The only time Berkeley students see this great faculty is the first day of class and on finals.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>It's obvious you know nothing about Berkeley...</p>
<p>
[quote]
On tuition, yeah USC is much more expensive but it's known that California students, which is all Berkeley accepts, get much more aid for USC from financial aid and grants from USC. Therefore, students actually end up paying about the same if not less than they would for Berkeley.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Want to provide a source for that? Berkeley's aid is excellent. It meets around 95% of need, about the same as USC's. Proof that Berkeley's aid is substantially better (and that students are generally better off, given their means, at Berkeley):</p>
<p>Average indebtedness at graduation:
Berkeley: $14,453
USC: $25,578</p>
<p>College</a> Search - University of Southern California - USC - Cost & Financial Aid
College</a> Search - University of Southern California - USC - Cost & Financial Aid</p>
<p>So it appears that USC students, on average, graduate more than $10,000 more in debt than Berkeley grads. And this is despite the fact that Berkeley has far more low-income students than USC does (students who are costly to support). By the way, Berkeley's average indebtedness at graduation is about the same as Yale's.</p>
<p>
[quote]
On Berkeley being harder to get into, both schools are at about 23-25% acceptance rate.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Acceptance rate means nothing. It all depends on who's applying. U Chicago for the longest had a near 40% acceptance rate, but it had SAT scores on par with top-15 privates. Why? Because the applicant pool was self-selective, and so only the students who were very qualified applied. When you have tons of unqualified students applying, then the acceptance rate goes down.</p>
<p>Berkeley's acceptance rate this year, by the way, was 21% overall, 17% for OOS students.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Yeah the area right outside USC is pretty ghetto but 2 miles away you have Beverly Hills, Hollywood, beaches, museums, some of the best restaurants and clubs in the world, and the list goes on. Berkeley is known for its university not for the city.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Speak for yourself on that one. Not everyone likes LA.</p>
<p>By the way, the city of Berkeley is pretty well-known for having a thriving culture and tons of political activism since the 1960s. That you say that Berkeley is known for the university, not the city, really shows how much you know about Berkeley.</p>
<p>By the way, San Francisco is a BART hop away, so Berkeley students have easy access to that as well... not to mention Oakland and lots of other cities.</p>
<p>
[quote]
you forgot to mention were that Asians are extremely shy and don't talk to anybody outside the Asian ring.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>lol, your flagrant inability to understand that stereotypes don't support your argument really does make me doubt the validity of all your claims. Honestly, it flabbergasts me that you'd even try to attempt such an argument.</p>
<p>That's like me stereotyping typical Americans as God-fearing consumerist slobs who are nationalistic patriots, arrogant to the extreme, and ignorant of other cultures. Do you think that would characterize most white students? Nope. And you can't stereotype Asians that way, either.</p>
<p>
[quote]
I don't find diversity in looking at a group of Asians talking a language I can't understand and eating a bowl of rice.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>None of my Asian friends (and I have tons of them) speak in their language. They speak English. They are not shy. They do not form cliques. They are outgoing and very normal people.</p>
<p>
[quote]
believe it or not many students will find more diversity in knowing students from other states like Alabama, NY, CA, Texas, Ohio, and so on.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I've heard this argument countless times, and it still makes no sense. I go to a school that enrolls mostly non-Californians from all 50 states. Can I say that it has any significance whatsoever? No. I still have not found an instance where it matters at all. Or where it would even come up, except during orientation when nobody knows anyone and the typical conversation goes, "I'm <em>_, from _</em>. Where are you from?"</p>
<p>Really, point out to me an example where being from another state would really change something about your college experience. Nobody has been able to explain this to me.</p>
<p>Middle-Easterners (Arabic or Farsi speaking) are considered white, not Asian. Our wonderful government considers them to be foreign enough to be considered terrorists and sent to Guantanamo at any moment, but not foreign enough to get any of the benefits of being a minority (such as affirmative action.)</p>
<p>Er, I have never seen any Middle Eastern students claim "white" on their applications. And who cares what the government thinks? This is an independent affair--on an application for a university. AFAIK, universities consider those in all the central and western Asia to be Asian as well...</p>
<p>Re: kyledavid80</p>
<p>The fact that many instructors from other great Universities go to Berkeley is correct, but many of them don’t go there because they want to teach. As far as engineering and science instructors, they go there because Berkeley provides the resources and funds needed to do serious research. Many big oil companies like British Petroleum (Bp) have teamed up with Berkeley by providing funds so that Berkeley can work for them. I probably exaggerated a bit when I said students only see the instructors the first and last day, but every Berkeley student I’ve talked to has agreed that instructors are hardly in class. They might show up to class and give a quick bla blab bla and then go do their research. According to the Princeton Review Berkeley rank 18 out of the top 368 schools in the country in “Having the Least Accessible Professors” :-(</p>
<p>You also keep comparing Berkeley with all these great Universities like Yale, Stanford, and MIT. Look, I believe Berkeley is a great school but there is no way I will compare Berkeley with those schools no matter what anybody says. However, I do believe Berkeley and USC can be great stepping stones to grad school at one of these great prestigious universities. </p>
<p>Your right about the average indebtedness between USC and UCB, but what those numbers don’t say is that top USC students qualify for many of the grants USC offers. In contrast, Berkeley is likely to only give you a one time aid package when you’re accepted no matter your performance, which is ok since tuition is reasonable. Even if you do end up paying 10k more, most students can pay that in 3-6 months after graduation. I definitely wouldn’t let that be a factor in my decision in applying to a university (don’t be a tight a…). </p>
<p>I don’t know were you got your acceptance rates but according to Princeton Review 2009
Berkeley’s acceptance:
Total applicants: 43,983
Accepted: 10,271
Students who enrolled: 4,204
This makes a 23.35% acceptance not 21 like you claim. As you can see only 40.9% of students who got accepted to Berkeley actually went there. Not everybody considers Berkeley like you think. Btw, OOS is 10% not 17%.</p>
<p>If all you got is something that happened in the 60’s to say that Berkeley is a better city than L.A. then I’m not going to waste my time arguing with you on that. I can obviously see you don’t get out much. </p>
<p>Stereotyping Asians? Look, I’m just calling it like it is; Berkeley has way too many Asians. Even Asian students will agree that Berkeley needs to do a better job in getting other minorities. Many Asian students are disappointed to find out that everybody there is Asian when they were told all this bull of diversity. </p>
<p>Now let me get this straight, you claim not to be a Berkeley student that goes to this mysterious school that you’re ashamed to name but somehow you know Berkeley inside and out, the students, the Professors…wow. You also claim not to be Asian but somehow you get extremely offensive when people simply say the facts and then you reply by saying is stereotyping. Look Mr. “I have tons of Asian friends” everybody knows that Asians are very shy people, and there is nothing wrong with that. I didn’t mean to touch a nerve when I mention the bowl of rice either, but hey I’m just speaking the truth. Look everybody, at least I don’t buy that bull crap of you having “tons of Asian friends” that are very vocal and outgoing. We all know that most Asians don’t socialize with other groups, that's on them. It seems like you were bully in grade school by white kids or something because you seem to have something against whites. </p>
<p>And yes, I do believe Berkeley’s diversity will be better of with more out of state students than with a large group of Asian kids from San Francisco. Btw, it wasn’t right when you said that stuff about the orientation with white kids, that’s like me saying Asians will introduce themselves by “Hi, what type of dogs do you eat in your country” when in reality we know that not all Asians eat dog meat. You know that wouldn’t be right.</p>
<p>I hope Berkeley does a better job in years to come by stepping up to what it says. Like I mentioned before there are many other minority students that are being left out of Berkeley: African Americans, Latin/Hispanic, Indian, etc. There also needs to be more OOS and international students as well in order for Berkeley to claim all this bull of diversity. :-)</p>
<p>
[quote]
The fact that many instructors from other great Universities go to Berkeley is correct, but many of them don’t go there because they want to teach.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>It’s really difficult for you to generalize over 2,000 people…</p>
<p>
[quote]
but every Berkeley student I’ve talked to has agreed that instructors are hardly in class.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I don’t know who you’ve talked to, but all that I’ve talked to (friends, acquaintances, etc.) and all that I’ve seen has indicated that instructors are typically in lecture.</p>
<p>
[quote]
According to the Princeton Review Berkeley rank 18 out of the top 368 schools in the country in “Having the Least Accessible Professors” :-(
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Nobody takes PR rankings seriously—they’re a joke. They don’t measure anything but a handful of students who respond. And voluntary response data = erroneous.</p>
<p>
[quote]
You also keep comparing Berkeley with all these great Universities like Yale, Stanford, and MIT. Look, I believe Berkeley is a great school but there is no way I will compare Berkeley with those schools no matter what anybody says.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Is that why pretty much all worldwide rankings put Berkeley with those universities? Is that why its peer review score, which is a survey of over 2,000 people in academics (presidents, provosts, etc.), is a 4.8/5, tied with Yale and only behind Harvard, Stanford, Princeton, and MIT?</p>
<p>And I only make comparison where comparison is appropriate. I would definitely not say that Berkeley offers as strong an undergrad experience as, say, Yale. But of course, “undergrad experience” is very subjective. I know many who would hate to go to Yale. I compare the faculties—and anyone who tries to dispute that one really knows nothing about the faculties (just look at all the different awards Berkeley’s faculty has—the only schools that really compare are Stanford, Harvard, MIT, and so on). I compare average indebtedness at graduation as well.</p>
<p>
[quote]
but what those numbers don’t say is that top USC students qualify for many of the grants USC offers.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>What do you know, top students also qualify for many grants that Berkeley offers. Try the Regents’ and Chancellor’s scholarship, the Alumni Leadership Award, the Alumni Achievement Award, and so on.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Berkeley is likely to only give you a one time aid package when you’re accepted no matter your performance
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Why do you keep making facts up to prove your point? Berkeley continually gives students aid. That’s why it has a ~98% retention rate (the % students who return for sophomore year, and this figure is the same as HYPS+), and why it has a 90% graduation rate (also comparable to top privates such as U Chicago, Cornell, MIT, etc.).</p>
<p>
[quote]
Even if you do end up paying 10k more, most students can pay that in 3-6 months after graduation.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>lol, once you graduate from USC, you’ll see why that isn’t easy to pay off in “3-6 months.” ;)</p>
<p>
[quote]
I definitely wouldn’t let that be a factor in my decision in applying to a university (don’t be a tight a…).
[/quote]
</p>
<p>“Don’t be a tight a…”? Why, because I’m poking holes in your dreamy and unrealistic view of USC? Face it: USC’s financial aid is subpar. Its endowment is too small for the number of students it has. In fact, Berkeley’s and USC’s endowments are about the same—and Berkeley doesn’t technically have a med school like USC does (UCSF is its de facto med school), and med schools always bring up the costs and the endowment. But here’s the difference: Berkeley receives government funding—about $500 million of it a year. A university typically spends about 5% of its endowment a year; that means a university would need a $10 billion endowment to take out $500 million. So Berkeley has an “implied” endowment of $10 billion. That’s not even counting the ~$2 billion endowment from UCSF and the implied endowment of UCSF as well.</p>
<p>
[quote]
according to Princeton Review 2009
[/quote]
</p>
<p>There you go again, using PR. Try the UC site:</p>
<p>University</a> of California - Admissions</p>
<p>
[quote]
Btw, OOS is 10% not 17%.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>17% is the acceptance rate for OOS students.</p>
<p>
[quote]
If all you got is something that happened in the 60’s to say that Berkeley is a better city than L.A. then I’m not going to waste my time arguing with you on that. I can obviously see you don’t get out much.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Such petty tactics in debate. If you read a little more clearly, I was not saying that that event made Berkeley a “better city.” I was replying to your (rather ignorant) comment that Berkeley is known for the university, not the city, when the city in fact is very famous, starting from the 60s.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Look, I’m just calling it like it is; Berkeley has way too many Asians.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>In your opinion. In mine, it’s fine.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Even Asian students will agree that Berkeley needs to do a better job in getting other minorities.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Ad populum argument…</p>
<p>And Berkeley does pretty well in doing that. Ever heard of the UC outreach programs? Senior Weekend, a program that gets admitted minority students from all over California to the Berkeley campus for a few days? All the minority recruitment and retention offices? The scholarships (TAAP, for example) that are often given to minority students?</p>
<p>I don’t get how you can say such for Berkeley, but not USC. Berkeley is about 5% black, and about 12% Hispanic.</p>
<p>USC? 5% black, 10% Hispanic. USC doesn’t have a common data set, so I can’t link to it, but here’s CB’s data:</p>
<p>College</a> Search - University of Southern California - USC - At a Glance</p>
<p>Looks like USC is the one that needs to beef it up. (And USC is the one in LA, full of minorities to choose from. :rolleyes:)</p>
<p>
[quote]
you claim not to be a Berkeley student that goes to this mysterious school that you’re ashamed to name but somehow you know Berkeley inside and out, the students, the Professors…wow.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Why are you taking this road? Does it really matter at all? Evaluate the validity of my claims, not me.</p>
<p>Of course, I’m so “ashamed” to admit that I’m a student a Stanford--Berkeley’s rival no less. (I thought that was rather obvious from my posting history…)</p>
<p>I happen to know Berkeley well because it was my second choice. I have many friends at Berkeley and have been active in various Berkeley communities for a few years.</p>
<p>
[quote]
You also claim not to be Asian but somehow you get extremely offensive when people simply say the facts and then you reply by saying is stereotyping.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I get “offensive”? (Perhaps you mean “defensive.”) When did I claim I’m not Asian? And how was your idiotic claim that all Asians are shy and cliquey a “fact”? That’s blatant stereotyping. I’m sorry you can’t see it.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Look Mr. “I have tons of Asian friends” everybody knows that Asians are very shy people
[/quote]
</p>
<p>lol, you just keep hammering your point home, making you look ignorant all the while… keep reinforcing your trivial argument with poor and inaccurate stereotypes.</p>
<p>
[quote]
I didn’t mean to touch a nerve when I mention the bowl of rice either, but hey I’m just speaking the truth.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>It didn’t “touch a nerve.” If you haven’t noticed, all I’ve done is take apart your poorly constructed arguments. (Though the “bowl of rice” comment did smack of racism.)</p>
<p>
[quote]
Look everybody, at least I don’t buy that bull crap of you having “tons of Asian friends” that are very vocal and outgoing.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>You don’t have to, though typically you don’t voice your doubts on such anecdotal evidence—it starts to sound like an ad hominem attack. (Why would I lie?)</p>
<p>
[quote]
We all know that most Asians don’t socialize with other groups, that's on them.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Oh, this is comical… you just keep doing it. :)</p>
<p>
[quote]
It seems like you were bully in grade school by white kids or something because you seem to have something against whites.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Of course, now you resort to making up facts to cover up your spurious claims that you fail to support.</p>
<p>
[quote]
I do believe Berkeley’s diversity will be better of with more out of state students than with a large group of Asian kids from San Francisco.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Berkeley draws more students from the LA area, if you can believe it. ;)</p>
<p>
[quote]
Btw, it wasn’t right when you said that stuff about the orientation with white kids
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Well, you haven’t been to any orientations or admit weekends, have you? Everyone asks, “Where are you from?” In fact, at admit weekends and such, the ID cards they give even say where you’re from. ;)</p>
<p>Here’s a funny video in which an a cappella group from Stanford makes fun of this:</p>
<p>YouTube</a> - Stanford in 180 Seconds!</p>
<p>
[quote]
There also needs to be more OOS and international students as well in order for Berkeley to claim all this bull of diversity.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I find it most funny that you didn’t even check USC’s diversity facts before claiming such. :)</p>
<p>Really, you’re fighting a losing battle.</p>
<p>Yep, IE, your arguments are getting worse and it's becoming evident that you're just spilling out BS. :)</p>
<p>Let me make this easy for you:
1) Berkeley is a top school, no matter what you or "all your friends who go there" (who I assume is yourself) say.</p>
<p>2) USC has 20% Asians. I suggest a top school such as Norte Dame, if you want to get away from Asians. I cannot even believe you're using (false) stereotypes to support your argument. </p>
<p>I don't think Kyledavid has anything against whites. You said that Cal has 40% Asians. Kyledavid was merely pointing out, hey, USC has 50% White. </p>
<p>
[quote]
Everybody knows that Asians are very shy people, and there is nothing wrong with that. I didn’t mean to touch a nerve when I mention the bowl of rice either, but hey I’m just speaking the truth. Look everybody, at least I don’t buy that bull crap of you having “tons of Asian friends” that are very vocal and outgoing. We all know that most Asians don’t socialize with other groups, that's on them. It seems like you were bully in grade school by white kids or something because you seem to have something against whites.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>3) It's very simple, DON'T COME OR EVEN APPLY TO BERKELEY. Obviously, Berkeley is not good enough for you and you would not even get in if you applied. In fact, you wouldn't enjoy coming here either, so why bother? (You probably can't get into USC either.. :() However, Berkeley has all of that: African Americans, Latino/Hispanic, Indians, OOS, International students. I have no idea where you're drawing your BS from?</p>
<p>
[quote]
I hope Berkeley does a better job in years to come by stepping up to what it says. Like I mentioned before there are many other minority students that are being left out of Berkeley: African Americans, Latin/Hispanic, Indian, etc. There also needs to be more OOS and international students as well in order for Berkeley to claim all this bull of diversity. :-)
[/quote]
</p>
<p>IE, you're not going to win by spewing BS out of your mouth and forming absurd generalizations.</p>
<p>Also arguing irrelevant things such as which school Kyledavid goes to or whether he is Asian or not does not earn you points.</p>
<p>Re: Celsius</p>
<p>Were did you come from? O’yeah, you’re the student that still doesn’t know if going to Berkeley was the right decision. Look, you’re obviously a person that doesn’t know what you want in life. You had to wait for somebody else to make a comment so that you can jump in. It looks like you’re one of those kids that needs somebody to hold your hand throughout college. I’m actually surprise that Berkeley and USC would accept a lame indecisive person like you. kyledavid is lame too, but at least he brings strong points to his argument. In other words I would recommend you to start getting a head start for the fall because it looks like you’re going to be part of that 10% kyledavid says don’t graduate. You need to get out now and leave that space for a student that’s actually going to get out with a degree. :-(</p>
<p>I’m not saying Berkeley is a bad school, I’m just saying that it doesn’t compare with Yale, Stanford, MIT, and such schools. Most students, hands down, would choose to go to one of these universities in a heart beat instead of Berkeley, you can just ask kyledavid about this. </p>
<p>You obviously don’t know how to read because I never said I dislike Asians. If Berkeley had too many African Americans or Latin/Hispanic I would say so. In this case, Berkeley has too many Asians and I believe many Asian themselves would agree, of course after they get accepted. Btw, you recommended Norte Dame for people who hate Asians….ok…who’s doing the stereotyping. Celsius you need to get off kyledavid’s nuts and create your own argument. Your mommy is not going to be with you all the time. Sorry the Berkeley thing is not going to work out. Some people just don’t have it, in this case you. </p>
<p>Re: kyledavid</p>
<p>It’s no secret that TA’s do much of the Professor’s work in Berkeley. Everybody knows that. Being involve with Berkeley so much, you should know that this is a problem many Berkeley students complain about. </p>
<p>Like I said before, Berkeley is a great public university, but it does not compare with Yale, Stanford, MIT, Harvard, etc. These schools are at another level. Many students go to Berkeley for their undergrad education and then move on to one of these top universities. You claim to be a Stanford student, you should know this. You need to stop brainwashing kids and telling them Berkeley is at the same level just because you got a job as an advisor for Berkeley undergrads. Don’t ask me how I know that. :-)</p>
<p>Paying 10K after graduation: Only because you had a tough time getting a job after graduation doesn’t mean everybody else will too. Earning a 4.0 at Stanford won’t get you a job, sorry for breaking the news. Communication skills are crucial! Btw, USC has one of the best Alumni networks in the country, getting a job after graduation isn’t a big problem for most students. In case you didn’t know, Berkeley was ranked #5 as “The best value public colleges” in the country, but like you said PR rankings are a joke. </p>
<p>You’re saying Berkeley became famous in the 60’s, but all you know about Berkeley till now is the 60’s. Coffee shops don’t do it for me. I LOVE LA.</p>
<p>Every university has those programs for minority students you mention, they do it for political reasons. Walking the talk is another story.</p>
<p>I see you didn’t include any of your racist remarks towards white people in your last comment. I notice you toned down a bit, I’m sure the Stanford thing wasn’t a factor.</p>
<p>Every ethnicity should get an equal piece of the pie. That’s what America is all about. I think Asians are great and should be in every university in the country, I just don’t think other groups should be left out. It breaks our country’s identity. We need to change our ways and do something for those that are not being help. This just in: Stanford students are welcome to get involve. :-)</p>
<p>
[quote]
I’m actually surprise that Berkeley and USC would accept a lame indecisive person like you. kyledavid is lame too, but at least he brings strong points to his argument. In other words I would recommend you to start getting a head start for the fall because it looks like you’re going to be part of that 10% kyledavid says don’t graduate. You need to get out now and leave that space for a student that’s actually going to get out with a degree. :-(
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Wow, this advice is one of the best I've heard. Just mention in a college interview of your top choice that you told a student to follow through with this advice and I'm sure they'll see you as the type of person they would want to admit. </p>
<p>
[quote]
Every ethnicity should get an equal piece of the pie. That’s what America is all about. I think Asians are great and should be in every university in the country, I just don’t think other groups should be left out.
[/quote]
Who's being left out at Berkeley?
Why is 40% Asian a problem? Just because Asians are one of the successful minority races here in the US, doesn't mean it should be a problem. In San Francisco, the poorest people in fact, are not African Americans, they are Asian.</p>
<p>
[quote]
kyledavid is lame too
[/quote]
Wow, calling people lame. Is it because he was arguing with you, and that saying you're wrong should warrant a, "he is lame" comment? I think everyone is entitled to say someone is wrong when they are wrong. You are entitled to do that too, rather than calling other ppl lame, just prove that you're right and their wrong with proof.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Like I said before, Berkeley is a great public university, but it does not compare with Yale, Stanford, MIT, Harvard, etc. These schools are at another level.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>[url=<a href="http://www.arwu.org/rank2008/ARWU2008_A(EN).htm%5DARWU2008%5B/url">http://www.arwu.org/rank2008/ARWU2008_A(EN).htm]ARWU2008[/url</a>]</p>
<p>
[quote]
Im not saying Berkeley is a bad school, Im just saying that it doesnt compare with Yale, Stanford, MIT, and such schools.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>What is so difficult to understand? Sure, Berkeley might not be comparable on the undergrad level. But in certain measures, it is. For example, retention rate: all are about 98%. That would make them comparable in that measure. Or faculty. Or graduation rate. And so on--the individual measures are comparable.</p>
<p>For grad school, Berkeley, Stanford, Harvard, and MIT are comparable. Princeton and Yale trail closely behind. Berkeley and Stanford are the real 'kings' in graduate education.</p>
<p>For overall school? It's difficult to say.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Only because you had a tough time getting a job after graduation doesnt mean everybody else will too.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Still you resort to petty tactics...</p>
<p>(FWIW, in my field, the average starting salary from Stanford is $84,000.)</p>
<p>
[quote]
getting a job after graduation isnt a big problem for most students.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I'm not saying getting a job is a problem. I'm sure most of the students who graduate from USC get a job quickly. (Though the fact that you try to doubt Stanford in this respect makes me doubt that.) The question is, how much are these students making? When you have to move, find a place to live, perhaps get a car, buy things for your home, pay credit card bills, get groceries, pay for utilities, etc., it ends up being rather difficult paying off a $10,000 debt in "3-6 months."</p>
<p>
[quote]
Berkeley was ranked #5 as The best value public colleges in the country, but like you said PR rankings are a joke.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>They are. Everyone knows Berkeley is the #1 public...</p>
<p>
[quote]
Every university has those programs for minority students you mention, they do it for political reasons. Walking the talk is another story.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>What are you talking about? Every university has tons of outreach programs? I don't think so. Every university has specific scholarships for such students? I don't think so. Every university has a specific admit weekend for such students? I don't think so. Not even Stanford has those...</p>
<p>
[quote]
I see you didnt include any of your racist remarks towards white people in your last comment.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>As soon as you can point out where I made any "racist" remarks toward white people, I might be able to take your claim seriously. (I find it remarkably funny that you say I'm being "racist" towards white people, when I'm white myself...)</p>
<p>
[quote]
Every ethnicity should get an equal piece of the pie.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>All right, going by the current ethnic categories: white, Hispanic, black, Asian, Native American. That means that a school should be 20% white, 20% Hispanic, 20% black, 20% Asian, and 20% Native American.</p>
<p>Interesting proposal. ;)</p>
<p>
[quote]
I think Asians are great and should be in every university in the country, I just dont think other groups should be left out.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>What's this? Which groups are being left out?</p>
<p>
[quote]
We need to change our ways and do something for those that are not being help.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I'm confused how your vendetta against Berkeley suddenly turned into an inspirational speech on helping the underprivileged...</p>
<p>I also don't agree that equating ethnic groups with underprivileged ones is as easy as you seem to make it.</p>
<p>Not another Harvey Mudd fiasco. However, it is kind of funny that when ever there is a school war it is because people from other school boards tramp all over UC Berkeley boards. I know our board is the best and all the others are dead, but why all the hate. :)</p>
<p>but why all the hate.</p>
<p>Because people dont want to admit that they can get the same education at Berkeley that they got at Harvard or Yale for 2/5 the price?</p>
<p>
[quote]
Re: Asian issue. I love Asians, especially right now that we get to see all these hot Asian cheerleaders dancing around in the Olympics.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>oh yes baby... I still remember those hot legs :cool:</p>
<p>You can get the same education, but you won't have the small class sizes. Also, it would cost less for some people, including myself, to attend Harvard or Yale. Berkeley only gave me a 250 dollar grant and the rest of my FA package was composed of loans. If I went to Harvard or Yale (wasn't accepted to both), tuition would be free for me.</p>
<p>I think most people got to Harvard and Yale for the experience of being in the east coast/different area and the small class sizes.</p>
<p>Also, about grad school, Princeton is barely ahead of Berkeley in terms of Math PhD programs.</p>