Engineering and Nursing still hiring like mad in recession

<p>for me, i am an industrial and operations engineering but I am going to operations/finance route...i am taking all my senior IOE electives are corporate finance, derivative pricing, operations modelling and operations decision analysis. I am really mainly aiming for finance or consulting....traditional IE jobs just suck</p>

<p>PurdueFrank: I also speak with respect towards you and your POV. However, I guarantee that I am not BSing and have taken care not to exaggerate these claims beyond what I have witnessed in the field. I have no interest in promoting engineering or nursing through lies, as that will only lead students down a path they don't want to take.</p>

<p>Also take into account that I have not cited or considered any employment statistics, and also have not mentioned the students who have chosen not to pursue summer internships, as well as a couple of students I go to school with who have not managed to find internships yet.</p>

<p>Also bear in mind that I speak from firsthand experience, from what I have heard from others. Things might be different in other engineering disciplines, but as far as civil/mining/geological/chemE/MechE/EE are concerned, this is the job market I encountered.</p>

<p>As for the 34/hr guy. He is a hell of a guy, who is also loaded with an amazing number of scholarships and awards. He is definitely the highest paid intern right now during the recession!</p>

<p>34/hr is not unbelievable to me, since the company is not providing benefits (believe it or not a significant portion of employment cost goes to benefits!) and he will be making anywhere from 75-95 after graduation. There are plenty of students making 26-32 that you will meet, although most are stuck down in the low 20s. Anyone making less than 20 is not doing too well, considering that TAs make over 20.</p>

<p>If you think these numbers are not realistic I would suggest that you begin to network with fellow students and interns to get a more reasonable idea of what companies are paying. I realize that you are a skeptic by nature, but you will find that other students are not lying when they offer wage information. I'm assuming you just finished your first year, and are doing your first summer internship. You will be paid much higher wages (especially coming from your school) in future internships.</p>

<p>I agree with your assessment on the job market. It sounds like what I thought before the conference. However, my experience certainly made me realize that decent internships are still around, and companies are searching for people to fill their positions.</p>

<p>
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Anyone making less than 20 is not doing too well, considering that TAs make over 20.

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</p>

<p>If by TA you mean Teaching Assistant, this is most certainly not true.</p>

<p>Theo</p>

<p>No worries. I never said that your claims weren’t possible, just highly unlikely. 34$ is a lot - and you are right, sometimes I can be a skeptic…though I’m not always. Like I said, 34$ would have to be a complete outlier - which you just said that it is.</p>

<p>In any case, I’m glad you have had such an experience. I have personally talked to a number of people both at Purdue and other universities who have not had the same experience. I guess the nonchalant attitude is what threw me off - I truly don’t know anyone who has had your success with such little effort. As for the pay of other interns, I guess it is possible that I am just unaware of the going rate - but the data usually doesn’t lie - and I would personally like to base my opinions off of data and not word of mouth. </p>

<p>Aeronautical & Astronautical .... 2331.... 2482......2654 .......2869 ..........3013
Agricultural & Biological........... n/a...........n/a.........n/a ........3770 ........... n/a
Biological and Food Processing…...3520...n/a.......n/a .....n/a ................. n/a
Chemical........................ 3179........ 3279......3619 .......4392 .................4811
Civil................................ 2433........n/a.........n/a ....................n/a .................... n/a
Computer……….2689…………..2971…………...2872…………..3187……….….3098
Electrical .......... 3179................. 3139..................2900 .................3182 .................3618
Industrial.......... 2413................. 3250..................3438 ....................n/a .................... n/a
Materials .......... 2544................. 2938.....................n/a ....................n/a .................3813
Mechanical ........ 2645............. 2912..................3129 .................3216 .................3318
Nuclear ...........2616.....................n/a.....................n/a ....................n/a .................... n/a</p>

<p>Here is the Purdue data for average co-op salaries by discipline, each …… represents a break in the term of the co-op, the first number corresponds to the first term of a co-op, the last number corresponds to the fifth term of a co-op. This data is from January 2009. As you can see, the highest average co-op salary is a fifth term chemical engineer, 4811/month. </p>

<p>You stated that I would easily meet people who make between 26-32/hr. However, this data would suggest otherwise. On a monthly basis 32/hr would be, 32<em>8</em>2 + 32<em>8</em>5*4 = 5184/month, which as you can see, is not someone I will likely meet. Even your 26/hr would be 4576/month, which is still an unlikely person for me to meet. </p>

<p>Now, perhaps the argument that Purdue co-ops are just underpaid as compared to many other universities would hold true - but I still say that that is doubtful. I think our graduates are approximately compensated at least as well, if not better than most other engineering programs in the country - therefore, I don’t see why we would be underpaid for co-ops. </p>

<p>To me, this really comes down to the unrealistic expectations of students across the country. Many students come to think of 100K as an easy target salary to hit at some point during their career, however, if you make just over 100K/year you are in the top 5% of income earners in the country. Obviously, not everyone is going to make this - in fact, only a mere 5% of the country makes this much. Likewise, it is obvious that you and other posters think that 26-32/hr is an easy salary to make as a co-op/intern, but this just simply isn’t true - most people will never make that much for a co-op/intern. I’m not saying that it’s not possible, rather highly unlikely - and hey, if that’s you - just pat yourself on the back, because your one of the few. My main point is that it’s the exception, not the norm…Like you have made it sound.</p>

<p>Interesting. Those co-ops are still paying quite decent. Do they factor in tax and sub-40 hour work weeks?</p>

<p>I imagine Purdue students make alot more than UofA, especially due to cost of living and whatnot. Also, my first internship was with a company that paid 17.55.</p>

<p>I still think that you'll easily meet people making 26-32. I run into them alot in the more technical fields like electrical/computer, as well as chemical. However, you will still meet plenty of guys making 20 an hour, so don't let me mislead you. I only want to provide people with a 'range' rather than an average.</p>

<p>From what I've heard, the guys up at Berkely and MIT are making as interns what we will make as engineers. I haven't met more than a couple, and haven't looked up the data.</p>

<p>One last word on data:
Be wary of it. My discipline is supposed to pay 40k-50k a year, according to some job sites. I certainly have never heard of an engineer making that small ammount of money (only civil stoops nearly that low, and only for recent grads).</p>

<p>Companies don't pay you a different amount of money depending upon which school you came from. All the large, well known engineering companies have a standard at which all new engineers start, with adjustments made for cost of living where the branch you'll be working at. A quick example for me is my computer engineering friend from undergrad being offered two jobs at Raytheon, one near Boston and another somewhere in Colorado, and the one near Boston paid a bit more (we went to CMU together). My girlfriend went to UC Irvine and was offered the same rate as him in Boston for a starting position at their branch here in Orange County.</p>

<p>Also, salary rates for interns/co-ops really have a lot of things they're dependent upon. One of my friends worked at a large EE company in Phoenix, and was paid $20 an hour, but they were also provided a nice suite-style hotel room, a new rental car, and transportation to and from the internship for free. If they had started as a full-time employee, they would have made around $63k a year, except without the free housing and whatnot.</p>

<p>Biggest thing is probably the industry you work in vs. school you go to. From what I know, at my company, co-ops get a $3000 bonus every rotation, wages range from $28 to $35 depending on grades, experience, etc. I've heard that this is pretty much the standard in the industry.</p>

<p>Life of a co-op here is living the dream honestly...nobody is ever going to get ****ed at me, company houses me and pays all the bills for $250/month. Last week I worked 40 hours of straight time at $30/hour and 20 hours of overtime at $45/hour. I would expect the company's competitors provide the same level of wages / benefits.</p>

<p>
[quote]
Companies don't pay you a different amount of money depending upon which school you came from. All the large, well known engineering companies have a standard at which all new engineers start, with adjustments made for cost of living where the branch you'll be working at.

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</p>

<p>That has been my experience as well. When there are differences in pay at the same location, it's due to previous work experience.</p>

<p>"Companies don't pay you a different amount of money depending upon which school you came from. "</p>

<p>this is a joke... this is the type of conspiracy lesser programs try to spread around their students.</p>

<p>Just take computer engineering as an example, for class of 2008, the average salary for Michigan computer engineering grad is $70939 while the average for all computer engineering grad across the nation is $60280 is almost $71000. If you ever took stats, you would know that this $10000 gap is VERY VERY significant, hell, even a $1000 is significant due to the HUGE sample size. and I am pretty sure a even wider gap exists at MIT or stanford, and comparably at peer engineering programs like UIUC or Cal, and even at slightly lesser engineering programs like Purdue or Texas.</p>

<p><a href="http://www.jobweb.com/studentarticles.aspx?id=1985%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.jobweb.com/studentarticles.aspx?id=1985&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>
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this is a joke... this is the type of conspiracy lesser programs try to spread around their students.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Companies don't necessarily hire from all schools. Higher paying companies may tend to hire more from school A than school B. However, they will pay grads from school A and school B the same if they hire from both.</p>

<p>" Companies don't necessarily hire from all schools. Higher paying companies may tend to hire more from school A than school B. However, they will pay grads from school A and school B the same if they hire from both. "</p>

<p>Fair enough. I just find the original statement kind of misleading on first glance for most people. but yes, now I agree.</p>

<p>bearcats, a lot of that could be due to which companies are recruiting you and where they're from. I imagine most schools don't get too many really large national companies recruiting for offices nationwide, so you're going to be seeing salaries with a trend towards whatever the local expenses are. The best schools tend to have slightly higher average salaries because their students are being recruited by the best companies, which are frequently located in some of the most expensive parts of the country.</p>

<p>
[quote]
this is a joke... this is the type of conspiracy lesser programs try to spread around their students.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>This is my experience as someone at both Carnegie Mellon and Caltech; two schools which I think are somewhat known for their engineering programs.</p>

<p>Edit: Whoops, didn't see you had made this post here. I wasn't disputing that you'd probably land a better paying job at a more well-ranked school, but that no matter where you're from, that job will pay the same.</p>

<p>I can imagine that better programs pay higher. This has got to partly due to the fact that people at great schools are usually more driven to find high-paying jobs, and are better candidates overall (GPA, experience, people skills, ECs).</p>

<p>^ TG: I think its the opposite way. Hiring people want to get the best possible candidate for their money. Also, It may happen that the better candidates may have more options to chose from, includin g better pay.</p>

<p>Side note: We are in a economic lull. Hiring will be localized, specialized, and a hirer's market. RacinReaver and my DS must have heard the same engineering spiel at Carnegie Mellon. :)</p>

<p>DS is glad that he wasn't offered a position at BIG COMPANY after his internships (hiring freezes in 2008) . His Carnegie Mellon advisor, offered him a job in startup that he couldn't refuse as employee #1.</p>

<p>Theodore, often small companies, at least the ones I'm familiar with, are not any more stable than large ones. If they lose a project, they get in trouble quicker.</p>

<p>Ken, we are structural engineers specializing in buildings, and have more work than we can handle. We turned down a series of projects today. We're putting in LONG hours. One of our regular clients, a developer, told us he is planning a building that will be from 7 to 12 stories tall, and he's hoping to use for the design. So not all structural engineers are struggling. We're doing one project for a large A-E firm, because they are also overloaded. Maybe Maine is the place to be?</p>

<p>From talking to bosses over the years, they definitely take into consideration the school that potential employees attended. One told me that he could tell that my University of Texas at Austin education was MUCH better than that of a local student. After getting hired, though, we just got raises based on our performance. Working for ourselves is MUCH more lucrative than working for someone else. Much more fun, too, to be able to work in your PJs if you want! :-)</p>

<p>
[quote]
Maybe Maine is the place to be?

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</p>

<p>That's entirely possible. The problem here is that all the A/E/C firms were so fully staffed during the building boom the past few years that there's no where to go but down. I used to see new 40 story buildings and tower cranes all over the place. Not so much nowadays... Many of these buildings were luxury condos that Wall St. people bought, so we're taking a big hit there with the economy.</p>

<p>Architects and engineers are being laid off so that doesn't bode well for me in construction. Luckily, I'm on a long-term project, so I'm somewhat "safer."</p>

<p>Overall, the numbers show a 28.5% decrease in the construction of residential buildings over the past year across the country. Total construction fell 9.3%.</p>

<p>Haven’t read the whole thread and don’t have time to, but I just wanted to say that I’ve applied to more than 10 companies in software/hardware and a couple of start-ups, so far there’s nothing serious getting back to me, and I took the applications pretty seriously so it’s not like I screwed something up.</p>

<p>P.S. I’m talking about internships not even full-time jobs.</p>

<p>10 is not nearly enough in any economy.</p>

<p>It can be harder to get an internship than it is to get a full-time job. Companies usually have to spend some amount of effort to train interns and the hope is that the interns provide a return on the training but that’s often not the case. With a new hire, the person gets trained and is expected to hang around for a year or two so that the company can recoup their expenses and maybe have an employee for the long run.</p>

<p>I’m seeing a moderate number of hiring ads but they’re typically for grads. We have openings for full-time software engineers and the openings have been hard to fill but they’re for a specialty area.</p>