<p>Ok, this might be a controversial thread, but I'm posting it anyway because I'm curious. I have a couple friends who recently graduated from engineering and they know they are smart, and they talk about it a lot. Yes, engineering is more difficult to get into and is harder subject-wise, but why are all the engineers I have met thus far arrogant about it 24/7? (And yes, the average engineer is smarter than the average liberal arts student, but not all are that smart.) I mean my best friend from high school is now majoring in engineering and she talks about it all the time too. Plus, engineers do not respect any other majors, except Physics. I know Physics and Engineering are more difficult, yet even engineers who do NOT do well in it think they are better than everyone else. I mean, it might be justified if they were doing well...This is uber-true at Berkeley. Don't get me wrong. I have friends who are studying engineering, but I'm just wondering why people change and act differently once in the major...and why so many have this mentality?</p>
<p>I can't say much about Engineering college students or recent graduates, but the engineers I have worked with or the ones who have been working for at least 5 years are very personable and not arrogant at all. Yes, they will get really revved up about science topics, but that's because they have passion for it. They might tend to talk about scientific stuff a lot, because that's what they know the best.</p>
<p>I don't think I have this attitude yet...you pest. Actually, I enjoy the company of LA majors. They are, on average, more fun =D</p>
<p>hardy har har...Key word: YET! My friend from high school wasn't like that at all in high school..............</p>
<p>But yes, the majority of people I talk to here are LA majors, because they do interesting stuff and make weird comments.</p>
<p>I don't think engineers that talk like that are being serious. At least, I always mean things like that in a joking manner. For example, my sister was a english / philosophy / classics double-major+minor at UCLA, so, being in EECS, I can belittle her majors because of the stereotype. It's just for fun, though.</p>
<p>If an engineer is consciously acting arrogantly and it isn't in jest, then s/he's just an *******. I haven't noticed that there are particularly many of those in engineering, but I suppose a couple of poor representatives might spread that kind of view. I will admit there seems to be a divide between the north side (engineering) and south side (liberal arts) that is quite palpable. I don't think it's disdain, though, just separation.</p>
<p>Actually, I'm still in high school, but I am planning to major in Physics and I think I understand where you are coming from. eudean is correct, I think. In most cases, I think what you are seeing is a non-serious attitude. For that matter, you can only take me seriously about half the time.</p>
<p>I think that this may come, in part, from experiences in elementary and middle school. I, for one, never could get the hang of the various social conventions. Did you know that it is better to "stay quiet and be thought a fool, than to speak up and remove all doubt"? I was so <em>different</em> in, for example, what I did with my free time (build vs. watch movies, go to Waterworld) that if I opened my mouth I would inevitably reveal some ignorance about how the (social) world works. So, I learned to speak jokingly about just about... everything. If you ensure that you don't sound as if you are talking seriously, your ignorance is more easily pardoned.</p>
<p>I would never suppose myself to be smarter than someone else based on major. I would probably die as an English major, in fact. I <em>enjoy</em> writing page after page of material for a science paper (or even a philosophical paper), but in most cases I simply cannot say the same about a paper for English. If you think about it, it is very difficult to establish a true measure of "smart." You know when you meet a smart person, but it's very challenging to precisely define a simple way of determining whether a person is "smart."</p>
<p>Needadvice's observation also applies to some business students.</p>
<p>I do think engineers are entitled to <em>some</em> bragging rights due to coursework difficulty, but yes, some students really obsess about it.</p>
<p>Well, when on average you are smarter, work harder and get lower grades - yeah, I think some of the animosity might be deserved.</p>
<p>Honestly, I can't think of any LAC major other than Physics or Math that I would even blink an eye at. Everything else is just so...easy?</p>
<p>Of course there are exceptions, I'm sure an Econ program at MIT might be slightly harder than the standard engineering program...</p>
<p>Exhibit A.</p>
<p>Unlimited...unfortunately business students aren't as warranted to be so cocky as engineers are. (Yeah, I sound arrogant now, but we all know it's the truth. Haas accepts 50% of applicants..)</p>
<p>Anyway, I'm just saying everyone knows that in general engineers are smart (although I have met some who aren't)...so why do they have to keep reminding us? I agree with unlimited in that some (if not many) do obsess over it.</p>
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I'm sure an Econ program at MIT might be slightly harder than the standard engineering program...
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<p>Heh heh, it's just 'slightly' harder than an average engineering program. </p>
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Unlimited...unfortunately business students aren't as warranted to be so cocky as engineers are. (Yeah, I sound arrogant now, but we all know it's the truth. Haas accepts 50% of applicants..)
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<p>Uh, that's 50% of the continuing students who apply. That means that first you have to get into Berkeley, and then later you have to get into Haas. I would say that that's pretty difficult. Plenty of people get into Berkeley but then later can't get into Haas. </p>
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I have friends who are studying engineering, but I'm just wondering why people change and act differently once in the major...and why so many have this mentality?
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<p>I don't condone arrogance, but I think you have 2 sources. </p>
<h1>1, you get the 'elite' effect. Just like how Navy SEALS or Special Forces often times give off the air that they are better than regular soldiers, because they went through more training and a more selective process.</h1>
<h1>2 - There is the resentment effect. A lot of engineers, particularly the ones who are not doing as well as they would like, strongly resent the fact that other students in other majors are getting higher grades for less work. This resentment seems to particularly come to a head when honorifics like Phi Beta Kappa or Golden Key or Dean's List designations are handed out, as all of these honorifics have GPA cutoffs that don't factor in the varying difficulties of various majors. For example, I know an engineer who just missed the GPA cutoff of PBK and was quite bitter about it, stating that if he had just loaded up on a bunch of easy classes, he would have made it. His resentment would particularly come to a boil when he would see other students getting lauded for their intelligence for making PBK, and basically treating him as if was a bad student, when the fact is, he was probably a better student than many of the ones that did get named PBK, especially the ones who majored in creampuff subjects.</h1>
<p>{Note, in case you're wondering how an engineer can rack up enough Letters and Science units to qualify for PBK, keep in mind that all of the lower division science and math courses count as L&S courses in addition to obviously the English, American cultures, and humanities/social-science breadth requirements.} </p>
<p>So the point is, it is things like being denied perks that some of the L&S students get that tend to draw a touch of resentment from engineering students.</p>
<p>bingo.......</p>
<p>Haha I admit that I'm pretty guilty of the "engineering ego"... but the thing is I'm going to die in all my classes anyway, and it's all I have now!!</p>
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Uh, that's 50% of the continuing students who apply. That means that first you have to get into Berkeley, and then later you have to get into Haas. I would say that that's pretty difficult. Plenty of people get into Berkeley but then later can't get into Haas.
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<p>Maybe I'm just being arrogant about the Haas thing because I took the prereqs and got a high enough GPA to get in...someone told me it was above the 75th percentile of applicants. I do not consider myself particularly intelligent at Berkeley, and I did not work that hard. This is why I don't think Haas is up to par with engineering, because I did not work that hard, I'm not spectacularly genius at Cal, and probably could have gotten in. I also like wearing makeup, and supposedly I talk like a valley girl, so I probably don't even give the impression of being smart at all. I also procrastinate a lot.</p>
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So the point is, it is things like being denied perks that some of the L&S students get that tend to draw a touch of resentment from engineering students.
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<p>Fair enough, and logical explanation.</p>
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Haha I admit that I'm pretty guilty of the "engineering ego"... but the thing is I'm going to die in all my classes anyway, and it's all I have now!!
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<p>haha okay...but you're definitely not alone!</p>
<p>... are these comments supposed to be possible explanations or justifications? Neither holds weight in my book.</p>
<p>Explanations and justifications derived from observations.</p>
<p>Just in case anybody didn't know.</p>
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liberal arts pl.n. </p>
<p>Academic disciplines, such as languages, literature, history, philosophy, mathematics, and science, that provide information of general cultural concern: “The term ‘liberal arts’ connotes a certain elevation above utilitarian concerns. Yet liberal education is intensely useful” (George F. Will).
The disciplines comprising the trivium and quadrivium.
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Well, when on average you are smarter, work harder and get lower grades - yeah, I think some of the animosity might be deserved.</p>
<p>Honestly, I can't think of any LAC major other than Physics or Math that I would even blink an eye at. Everything else is just so...easy?</p>
<p>Of course there are exceptions, I'm sure an Econ program at MIT might be slightly harder than the standard engineering program...
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<p>There are plenty of difficult majors outside of Engineering, Physics, and Math. Statistics forexample is a difficult major.</p>
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Statistics forexample is a difficult major.
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<p>That's splitting hairs, don't you think? After all, statistics is basically just a sub-branch of math. By the same token, we could also name things like Computer Science, which is strictly speaking neither engineering nor math, but is pretty close to both. </p>
<p>I think what we are saying is that the more mathematical and more technical a major is, the more difficult it tends to be.</p>