<p>DS is a HS junior and visiting schools that offer engineering. Besides the obvious (engineering programs, research opps, career opps, etc.), there are the normal college considerations - size, location, school fit, etc. After our visit this weekend, we wish we could create your own school, picking characteristics from among the schools we've seen -- like you'd choose a take-out meal: one from column A, one from column B, and so on. </p>
<p>It feels like if you can get into a top 10 engineering school, it's a no-brainer. But what's the difference between, say top 40 and top 100? What if you get into #40 and #90, but there are things you like better about #90? (don't check the rankings, these are just estimates - I have no idea what #40 and #90 are). How big of a difference is the education/career opportunities?</p>
<p>For the sake of the question above, take finances out of the equation first. Then, think about what if #90 provides significant merit aid?</p>
<p>Are there specific questions we should ask at #90 or #100 to make sure it has what #40 or #50 offer? </p>
<p>There are certain trade-offs that DS is willing to make, but I don't want him to give up a superior education (most important factor) for the sake of something that might be a secondary issue (weather, size of school, etc.).</p>
<p>Thanks for your thoughts on this....</p>
<p>1) Name</p>
<p>the sad fact is that name plays a role in the post collegiate job hunt. if employers see a big well known school they’ll automatically start to favor you over the not so well known school</p>
<p>2)professors </p>
<p>this is a big one, professors should always be willing to help students and have flexible office hours or the student will struggle much much more</p>
<p>3)location (not as you’d think)</p>
<p>most people look at location and think about temperature, city type, etc.,but one thing to take into account is proximity to home, if you live in the northeast but go to school in the south west you won’t have as much access to the nice alumni support than a school in the north</p>
<p>Thanks, FutureMarine94. Among the schools we are looking at, they are all name schools, but the lowest ranked one is not known for engineering (although it has an engineering school with excellent placement record). Also, DS would love to live in the state where this lower ranked school is… so he would be happy with a local employer. It’s not a slouchy school by any means, just not as prestigious for engineering. Maybe it is, though, locally. We will check that out next time we visit.</p>
<p>All the colleges talk about professors being accessible. Any specific questions to ask to get a better grip on this?</p>
<p>
The difference between top 40 and top 100 can be pretty big, especially if you are going into industry! A top 40 school is likely to draw recruiters across a wider region than a top 100 school, and for better positions and salary. You can check the numbers they post for their graduates, but they are often misleading (depending on who is reporting their salaries, for example). Look at the employers on their recruiting schedule, and see how you like them. </p>
<p>As to the rest… it is a judgment call. How much of a mismatch can your son tolerate for 4-5 years if it means a better and more lucrative career?</p>
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I would focus on the percentage who are studying/working in their field after graduation (if available) and where their graduates wind up, both in industry and grad school. Look at the statistics and compare the number of responses to the number of graduates (i.e., large % replying, numbers are probably accurate, small % replying, numbers are suspect). If that #90 school is placing engineering graduates in good companies and grad schools, then it is doing okay.</p>
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<p>Instructional quality is a big issue, but unfortunately the only real way to gauge it is to sit in on comparable classes at the different schools - all the schools will say the same thing, and the current students only have experience at the one school so cannot really compare. Don’t stress over it too much, ultimately in life your son is going to have to learn to adapt.</p>
<p>As far as career opportunities go, I honestly don’t think there’s much of a difference between going to a top 40 school and a top 100 school. To my knowledge, there is no top 100 ranking for undergrad engineering, but even if there were, my opinion would be the same. If there is an employer out there who cares that much about school rankings, that’s an employer that should be avoided.</p>
<p>I’ve met excellent engineers from places like the University of New Mexico, GWU, and Drexel (none of which are ranked among the top 50 undergrad engineering schools), so if I were to interview an applicant from an unranked school, I would not be so quick to dismiss him (or her).</p>
<p>Location matters in that employers will recruit at local schools more readily than out of area schools (they will visit the best known out of area schools, but are less prone to visiting lesser known out of area schools). So a student at San Jose State will be more likely to get a job at a Silicon Valley computer company than a student at Louisiana Tech.</p>
<p>Among lesser known schools, check for [ABET</a> accreditation](<a href=“http://www.abet.org%5DABET”>http://www.abet.org) to see that the desired major meets the minimum standards that employers expect. While well known schools can get away without ABET accreditation in some majors like computer science and bioengineering, lesser known schools tend to seek ABET accreditation to “validate” their degree programs. However, ABET accreditation is essential if Professional Engineer licensing is to be sought (this is mainly an issue for civil engineering).</p>
<p>Engineering employers are generally regarded as less school-prestige-conscious than, for example, consulting companies and investment banking companies, but a student at a lesser known school not local to employers needs to be more aggressive about finding employers to apply for jobs at, rather than waiting for them to come to the school career center.</p>
<p>Re-writing this response as it got buried in cyberspace once already today (ugh).</p>
<p>Thank you for your opinions and insights. The questions you have given me to ask are really useful. To get further insights from you, I think I will share the schools we are looking at. DS interested in biomedical engineering.</p>
<p>Johns Hopkins. If he gets in, would be hard to turn down (visited).</p>
<p>Lehigh. DS liked the integrated biz/engineering program (visited).</p>
<p>RPI. Great research opps and career placement. But in Troy (ugh). Very techy and DS would be fine with that (visited)</p>
<p>Maryland. Top among publics in engineering. Excellent presentation; impressive. Negative: size (visited)</p>
<p>Carnegie Mellon. Heard presentation at local HS. DS wants to visit. Reach for anyone, right?</p>
<p>University of Miami. DS LOVES it. On paper (internet), engineering school looks good, but not nearly as highly ranked as all the others here. They say excellent placement for engineering grads. We visited once (gen info session/tour). Will visit again in the winter (we will be down there anyway) and will get more focused engineering info. Even if career opps are local, DS would love to live in FL. In general, the school is highly ranked and has name recognition, but not for engineering. DS can probably get merit aid (a bonus!) (PS - DS not swayed by sports at the U; “rah rah” not a deciding factor for him at all).</p>
<p>Tulane. Also a consideration. Will probably visit.</p>
<p>I know there are many other highly ranked engineering schools in the Northeast and Southeast, but they are not on the list for other reasons.</p>
<p>Johns Hopkins - absolutely great for biomedical, I agree that it should be very hard to turn them down!</p>
<p>Lehigh - I know a couple of graduates of that integrated program, and I would not recommend it for someone who actually wants to do engineering. The program seems more oriented towards producing business/sales types who need engineering knowledge. Neither of the graduates I know worked as engineers for more than a year or so.</p>
<p>RPI - very solid school, not sure of how they are in biomedical. In general, with biomedical I would shy away from schools without an attached or nearby cooperating medical school.</p>
<p>Maryland - solid school, has the advantage of providing lots of strong options if (as so many do) he changes majors. It is huge, but any school will feel that way when he starts, and (like Hopkins) is near a lot of very interesting and fun places.</p>
<p>Carnegie Mellon - great school, not the strongest for biomedical (AFAIK) but generally very solid. Down side is that Pittsburgh has all of Baltimore’s negatives and none of its positives. Does have Primanti Brothers…</p>
<p>Miami/Tulane - never visited either, but I think both are decent options. That is to say, while they may not provide the opportunities some of the other schools will, a decent effort should still give him lots of opportunities when he graduates.</p>
<p>I suppose he needs to decide how much work he wants to do, and where he wants his career to go. If he wants to be a top engineer or go to a good grad school, I would heartily recommend Hopkins or one of the other better schools. If he just wants to graduate without too much stress and find a decent job, he can go anywhere and should probably avoid some of the more high-ranked schools.</p>
<p>Thank you, Cosmicfish!</p>
<p>What do you think about Lehigh engineering, separate from that integrated program (which is an honors program)? I don’t thnk they are are near anything.</p>
<p>From what we know about Miami so far, they have a lot of research opps (nearby research hospital) but we will find out more. The university is highly rated in general and, as with most of the colleges, the standards to get into engineering are higher than the general college population.</p>
<p>RE: Pittsburgh. Another negative is that they got a lot more snow than Baltimore. Given the choice, DS would go for less snow – that’s why I can’t get him to consider my alma mater - Northwestern - but I’m still trying :)</p>
<p>DS is not afraid of hard work, but he is being challenged for the first time this year as a junior – in AP Physics. Loves the teacher and is spending a lot more time on this than anything he’s taken previously (and likes it).</p>
<p>Anyone else have opinions/experiences with these schools?</p>
<p>If he’s interested in business/engineering combinations, there are some very good schools that have very good programs (better than Lehigh’s). Can you give us an idea of SAT score / GPA so we can make relevant suggestions?</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>The only way to judge this is to ask existing students.</p>
<p>Sure. He’s a junior so nothing official yet. GPA 3.8-4.0. Taking 3 APs, 1 honors and college level language this year. Hasn’t taken SATs yet. 1400 is very reasonable estimate (CR/M). 750 on Chem SAT II (taken soph year). Does not want a city school (Hopkins has nice campus, so that worked; did not like Penn at all.) Prefers 5,000-10,000. UMD will be only exception (so no Penn State). Prefers not to go north of NY (like Boston - I’m on the fence about taking him to check out Tufts though).</p>
<p>Does this help?</p>
<p>I’ve worked with a bunch of guys from Carnegie Mellon and RPI and both schools are great for engineering. But honestly, I think all of those schools are probably fine. It’s just a matter of looking at their individual programs and figuring out the annual cost. Personally, I would avoid going to an expensive school that isn’t well known for engineering.</p>
<p>^ Good advice. Tulane and Miami are both known for merit aid. It’s a consideration.</p>
<p>If your son is at all interested in CMU I’d recommend trying to make a visit. It’s in a really great college city (very inexpensive, low crime in the college areas, tons of places to eat, lots of things to do, and a pretty good public transit system).</p>
<p>I’m a CMU alumni from the Materials Science & Engineering program and absolutely loved it, so if you have any questions feel free to ask. :)</p>
<p>(And, for the record, my best friend in high school went to Hopkins for ChemE and hated the fact that his first two years of classes was with all premeds.)</p>
<p>RacinReaver: DS definitely wants to visit CMU. I just want the SAT scores in the bag before we start flying all over the place. I have a “friend” on another CC thread I’m active on and she always touts Pittsburgh! I was there once for business, but didn’t head over to CMU because I wan’t in college mode at the time!</p>
<p>Note, however, the bioengineering tends to have weaker job and career prospects than most other areas of engineering. It may be worth considering doing a more traditional engineering program on the “side” of bioengineering that is of the biggest interest (e.g. chemical, mechanical, materials, or electrical) with bioengineering type electives.</p>
<p>Well, for biomedical Georgia Tech is #2 in the country (#4 overall engineering) and has a really well run Technology & Management honors program. It’s in a city and has 14,000 U/G’s so a little larger than his preference, but academically it looks like a good fit and he has a shot at a scholarship, particularly with good leadership EC’s.</p>
<p>Another school that might match is Duke. #3 Biomed (#31 overall engineering). They do a pretty good job crossing engineering students over to take classes in management. 6,500 undergrads, so it’s in his preference range and is known to give good aid. It might be a stretch, though.</p>
<p>Duke has been suggested before. Will look into that further. I don’t know why it’s not on the list – I always root for them in b-ball because I like when the “smart” kids win.</p>
<p>Georgia Tech not an option. DS needs to go to school with some other Jewish students (and it doesn’t pay to to Emory and do engineering at GT). I know that VA Tech is also a good option, but way too big and way too hard to get to from LI, NY.</p>
<p>And there are no Jewish kids at Georgia Tech? There’s an entire Jewish fraternity and a Jewish student union.</p>
<p>Very small percentage based on my research…</p>