<p>Hello!</p>
<p>I want to major in engineering as an undergrad, but I eventually want to go to law school, so I'm hoping to attend a school that will force me to take some reading/writing/basic liberal arts courses as well (what's the technical word for this? a strong core curiculum?). Which schools should I look at?</p>
<p>I live in southern CA. I'm happy with staying in state (cheaper!) but if I do go out-of-state, I want to live in a really urban city.</p>
<p>SEAS at Columbia University is basically EXACTLY what you're looking for.</p>
<p>Even "techy" schools like Caltech and MIT will require you to take classes in the humanities, arts, and social sciences -- MIT requires 8 semesters of humanities classes, and Caltech requires (I believe) twelve trimesters.</p>
<p>I think harvey mudd (one of the claremont colleges) is also a great choice for you.</p>
<p>Well staying instate is cheaper only if you attend a public school, which it does not seem like you want to.</p>
<p>I second the previous poster input of Harvey Mudd.</p>
<p>It's a top engineering school, ranked #1 among liberal arts colleges in engineering.</p>
<p>It has a very strong core curriculum, similar to that of MIT and Caltech. (physics, calc, chem + assorted) </p>
<p>And as mentioned, it is a liberal arts college meaning you will be taking the types of classes it seems like you are looking for. On top of that, you can take such classes at Pomona and Claremont McKenna, which are world-renowned for liberal arts education.</p>
<p>To be honest, you could go to almost any university, and if you're willing, you can take any amount of reading/writing courses. Most engineering schools have some sort of humanities requirement (I know Cal forces you to take a minimum of six), so you can have all of those classes be R&C courses. If you're looking to stay in state, Stanford, Caltech, Harvey Mudd, USC, and the UC's would be good choices, provided you can make them. Claremont McKenna has a joint 5-year program with HMC for engineering + some sort of humanity (can't remember which) that you could look into as well (CMC will give you the humanities while HMC will give you the engineering). I know quite a few engineers who are looking into law (myself included!), so good luck to you!</p>
<p>A quick plug for my own school: Rice is often singled out for its strong engineering, and, while there is no core curriculum, the distribution requirements do force you to take a variety of non-science/engineering classes, and the small size virtually guarantees interaction between students and professors, if that's something you consider important. And, although I wouldn't call Rice's campus urban, Houston is the fourth-largest city in the US.</p>
<p>northwestern has top engineering, top liberal arts, and is as close to chicago as harvard is to boston. also an extremely strong law school feeder.</p>
<p>also, there are a lot of kids from southern cali that attend.</p>
<p>In-state can be cheaper even if the school isn't public. If two private schools cost the same but one is across the country, it's likely that the student could save thousands in airfare, storage, and shipping costs by choosing the more local option. Not definite, but likely. Just a thought.</p>
<p>Looks like other people are giving you great suggestions, but one thought for you: GPA is a huge part of law school admissions. Admission to law school is based almost solely on LSAT and GPA (emphasis on the former), and it's generally claimed that little/no consideration is given to applicants from tougher majors or schools. So, while I would never recommend basing your choice of undergrad too heavily on tentative future plans, something to keep in mind is the fact that even with a grade-deflating major such as engineering, certain schools (Mudd and CalTech come immediately to mind, but I'm sure they're not alone...I could also be incorrect in labeling them this way) are known for serious grade deflation and could significantly hurt your chances at getting into law school down the road.</p>
<p>If lauraware really has no intention of working as an engineer or attending a graduate engineering program, I don't know why it would be necessary to concentrate her application efforts on places like CalTech, MIT, Harvey Mudd, which are difficult to get into and full of very serious engineering types. A lot of very good universities offer engineering programs that regularly place their graduates in professional schools, but also make it relatively easy to take social studies/liberal arts classes. I would suggest lauraware take a close look at the overall picture presented by a university, including factors such as ease of taking classes outside of engineering, the quality of the non-engineering classes, availability of merit scholarships (law school will be expensive), and placement of engineering majors in non-engineering fields. One place to inquire about the last is the undergraduate director of engineering programs at a potential university.</p>
<p>I'm sure there are other examples, but I'm pretty sure Vanderbilt Univ. School of Engineering offers a major in "engineering science", intended for those who want to know what engineering is about, but plan to use that training in another field.</p>
<p>Student615, your comments are definitely valid, but I hope no one tries to talk lauraware or anyone else out of pursuing a technical field prior to law school. My husband (an economist) gets flown across the country to tutor assistant AGs, including those with law degrees from very top law schools, on basic statistics so they can present the state's case without making fools of themselves in court. I would imagine more than a few engineers make a whole lot of consulting income doing the same.</p>
<p>Harvey Mudd and Cornell are two schools that immediately come to mind. Both schools have amazing engineering programs and strong liberal arts.</p>
<p>Columbia and Princeton are two other top schools that also come into mind, with amazing liberal arts and decent engineering</p>
<p>Still, you can't go wrong with Caltech</p>
<p>maybe i sound ignorant, but what's an "AG"?</p>
<p>also guys, thanks for your input!</p>
<p>(sorry I can't figure out how to edit my posts)</p>
<p>Also, have any of you had any experience with schools that offer joint degrees in engineering and law? I've noticed that both Northwestern and GWU will guarantee engineering majors a position in law school if they take the LSATs and maintain a certain GPA.</p>
<p>lauraware:
AG = Attorney General. The top government lawyer at the state level is Attorney General. Their assistants--those who actually try the cases--are Assistant Attorney General. Sorry for the shorthand.</p>
<p>The GWU and Northwestern programs sound very interesting.</p>
<p>To edit a post, look for the blue "Edit" at the bottom of the post you just submitted. I don't think it stays active for very long.</p>
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and it's generally claimed that little/no consideration is given to applicants [to law school] from tougher majors or schools.
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<p>all it takes is a quick look at the HLS class composition to discern that this is almost undeniably false, all the most represented schools read like a who's who of elite universities, with small but prestigious schools being represented in double digits, and large but unrigorous universities such as medium-ranked state schools lucky to even have one student representing them.</p>
<p>though there is something to be said for engineering being an undesirable pre-law major (because of the likely GPA hit).</p>
<p>i wasn't aware of the Northwestern and GWU programs, but they sound like a solution to me.</p>
<p>Consider looking at Georgia Tech. The reputation of the Engineering Programs is excellent, but more importantly, Tech has built several strong schools in the liberal arts. A number of Tech grads go onto law school- many of them ultimately practicing as Intellectual Property Attorneys ( I know- I am married to one). Tech has also developed a corporation for research-e.g. an "incubator" that provides the technology and engineering faculty to match equity/business side for new companies. Check out the Tech website. Good luck in your search!</p>
<p>Rice, Vanderbilt, Northwestern, Cornell, UMichigan, Stanford, Berkeley</p>
<p>Duke = great engineering + great liberal arts + phenominal grad placement rates.</p>
<p>elsijfdl -- It's a bit more complex than just noting that HLS happens to have lots of students from prestigious schools. All I'm presenting is the general claim...I personally can't speak for admissions officers. Take a look over on the law board if you want to see the argument a bit more fleshed out (over...and over...and over).</p>
<p>And similar to as Midmo was saying, I don't think there's anything at all wrong with pursuing a technical field prior to law. On the contrary, such a background is imperative for certain fields of law, and can serve students extremely well. As I recall, numerous technical fields (many different branches of engineering, CS, and math, to name a few) top the list of "highest average LSAT scorers (by major)." Technical mindedness seems like an excellent trait for future law students either to possess or cultivate. Not trying to imply otherwise :)</p>
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elsijfdl -- It's a bit more complex than just noting that HLS happens to have lots of students from prestigious schools.
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<p>ok, granted, but also look at this:</p>
<p>UMich law school (#8)
"While the strength of an undergraduate institution is certainly a factor we consider in the admissions process, our commitment to maintaining the excellence of our student body does not limit the wide range of educational institutions from which our students hale."</p>
<p>rutgers university:
"Admission to law school is highly competitive, and law schools consider undergraduate cumulative grade-point average, strength of academic program, and results of the Law School Admission Test (LSAT)."</p>
<p>marquette university:
"The Admissions Committee considers not only the raw numerical undergraduate GPA but also such factors as trends in grades, performance across semesters and academic years, the nature, strength, and rigor of the academic program, the ratio of pass/fail to graded courses, variety and depth of coursework, and more."</p>
<p>columbia law school (#5):
"Regardless of institution(s) attended, the Committee carefully considers:</p>
<p>Rigor, breadth, and depth of curriculum
Grade trends over time (upward or downward)
*Institutional grading trends (grade inflation) *
Special honors, awards, and fellowships
Letters of recommendation
Professional and extracurricular experiences
Community service and political activity"</p>
<p>and beyond that, all schools allude to (including harvard, yale, upenn, northwestern) a consideration for "academic" achievement, if not outright saying they weight undergraduate quality and prestige.</p>