<p>Another consideration is whether he wants a tech-school atmosphere or an engineering dept within a larger, more comprehensive university. That was an important distinction for our son when he was looking.</p>
<p>I believe that Tulane eliminated its engineering program after Katrina.Also, wihtin the NC state univerity system, UNC does not have an engineering program; that would be at NC State.</p>
<p>edit: whoops, only saw the first page of this thread. some repetition here.</p>
<p>srobin ~ DW and I are both engineers; DS is finishing sophomore year at USC (Viterbi School of Engineering). DD will be applying to enigneering schools in the fall, and we are looking at many of the same schools you are thinking about.</p>
<p>You've received a lot of good advice. But I am a bit worried that one theme in the advice may not get the attention it deserves; your son needs some real engineering safeties that he would be happy to attend.</p>
<p>I suggest that you get the US News college list and look carefully at the engineering schools where you son's 1870 SAT puts him in the top 25% of the entering freshmen, even better if the score puts him in the top quartile of the applicant pool. Your son needs to pick at least three of these schools as back-ups. Given the other strengths you've described, this will ensure that he has some options next year.</p>
<p>Admission to engineering programs is very difficult because the programs themselves are difficult. Add to this the enormous randomness of college admissions generally and anyone's ability to predict where your son will be admitted becomes very problematic. </p>
<p>Please ensure he has some safeties that he really likes.</p>
<p>Good luck.</p>
<p>Stevens Institute of Technology is a relatively small (less than 2000 undergrads) engineering/science focused school. It is quite expensive, with tuition alone being over $35k. Add to that room, board, and fees and the cost of attendance is said to be in excess of $47k (according to its website).</p>
<p>
[quote]
You've received a lot of good advice. But I am a bit worried that one theme in the advice may not get the attention it deserves; your son needs some real engineering safeties that he would be happy to attend.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>OP--This prompted me to search your other posts, and it sounds like finances are a major concern as well. </p>
<p>UAB sounds like an excellent admissions safety and, perhaps more importantly, may be a financial safety given the University Scholars scholarship (is it really automatic?). </p>
<p>Your Alabama residency will work in your son's favor for geographic diversity at distant schools. He wouldn't happen to be an underrepresented minority, would he?</p>
<p>The financial aspect is tricky. Some schools have poor need-based financial aid; some do well. VT has an average of 61% of need met. GT 55%. Vandy is 100%. Merit aid is great, but full-tuition and full-ride scholarships are few and far between. Even if he gets into RPI with a $15K merit scholarship, they might fill up your financial aid package with a boatload of of loans. Keep in mind that $20K of debt may not be an unreasonable burden for an engineer with a $65K starting salary.</p>
<p>Other people have talked about seeking out the "reverse commute" to get the admissions and money advantage. This doesn't describe an engineering school, though, so you may want to encourage him to step back and think outside the box. Everybody is thinking about Harvard and Vanderbilt. Those schools can probably cherry pick the top kids from each state. How about that LAC with too many girls from up north that desparately needs math-loving boys from Alabama with 32 ACTs. I don't know anything about LACs. What about, I don't know, say Goucher for Math/Comp Sci?</p>
<p>tsdad -- UNC does have a joint dept. of biomedical engineering co-located at at UNC Chapel Hill and NC state, established in 2003. Also, I believe there are grad program in Environmental sciences and engineering at UNC. Additionally, UNC has a well established chapter of Engineers w/o Borders.</p>
<p>Completely agree with reasonabledad and Dad'o'2.</p>
<p>What schools is he thinking of in the safe category and where his scores might get him merit aid?</p>
<p>That is the most important decision. Whether to apply to JHU et al... that can all wait. IMHO, he should do some rolling/non-binding EA to schools where he is likely to (a) be admitted and (b) get adequate need-based aid and/or merit $. The early bird often gets the worm on these types of awards so it is critical to get some early apps in. The results might also help him guage his chances elsewhere.</p>
<p>If Tulane has the engineering fields he seeks, that is a possible and the Tulane merit awards come soon after the EA decisions (or at the same time); ie, you would know in December/early January and still be able to see how the RD works out at other schools. Santa Clara may give an EA decision, but merit award may not come until April (that is how it happened with my S, anyway). St. Louis U is one I know of that might step up with merit aid - a top Masters level school in Aerospace Engineering if that interests him. UMiami, mentioned by another poster, is known for strong merit aid.</p>
<p>Good luck. But the focus really must be on admission and financial safeties. THEN he can think about what top schools he might like to throw into the mix.</p>
<p>To clarify, Tulane's programs in "science and engineering:"</p>
<p>
[quote]
The school offers degrees in biological chemistry, biomedical engineering, cell and molecular biology, chemical and biomolecular engineering, chemistry, earth and environmental science, ecology and evolutionary biology, environmental biology, environmental geoscience, geology, mathematics, neuroscience, physics, psychology, and statistics. In addition, a minor is offered in engineering science.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>So if a student wants mechanical engineering, civil engineering, manufacturing engineering, etc, that is no longer offered.</p>
<p>DS2 just went through the admissions process for engineering. Frankly, it was a far more challenging experience than expected (DS1 went ED to liberal arts school - so easy!) . If the OP wants to PM me I will give you more specific information about his experiences and results. Although my son will be happy attending one of the schools where he was accepted, his results were not what we expected. "Waitlist" is the new vocabulary word of the week in our house. (We have used it as a noun, as a verb, in present, past and future tenses. We have used it in a sentence and used it as a question. We have, many times, used it with an exclamation point! We have written paragraphs and letters about it. And, we have used it with various intonation patterns. LOL - but I digress). I was told by an admissions office this week that they had seen an unexpected, large increase in engineering applicants this year and a more talented applicant pool than before. I would agree with the others that your son might need to pull up the SAT, if he can, and not ignore the CR/W scores if he is interestesd in the most selective schools - my son's SAT scores were higher than your son's, not that they are everything as we know. </p>
<p>From our results I would strongly recommend EA applications for accpetance as well as merit, as mentioned, and I would also recommend a well considered ED application if you are still interested in the most selective schools (Don't waste the ED on an uberreach though - it's just too competitive out there IMHO). Remember that a percentage of pre-med students apply to engineering at the Ivies and top schools so the pool can be quite strong and quite competitive. Also, many students who apply to engineering schools, and especially the top schools, have been participating in engineering/science/math competitions outside of school for years. Some engineering programs really look for this involvement and welcome students who have good track records in participation and recognition. If your son can participate in any of these, or seek out work experience in an engineering type firm, do research with someone outside of his school, etc., then he should definitely add these activities to his resume if they interest him. Some of the applications even have boxes for math competition scores. One Dean of Engineering stated that she scans the applications for evidence that the student truly "knows" what engineering is (remember the post that said 2/3 students leave engineering - they don't like to lose 2/3 students to other majors). </p>
<p>Definitely visit different types of schools (tech vs. LAC style vs. large state or private school). My son is now faced with choosing between one of each -and they are all so different. Stepping on these different campuses will help your son narrow things down. </p>
<p>Some engineering schools primarily prepare students for jobs after 4 years and some are highly research oriented - does he have a preference? Some are heavily into nanotechnology, biomechanical, etc. Some have only the basic engineering degrees and will limit depth of course selection and cross study. But maybe your son would prefer to take more liberal arts courses than more engineering courses.....Some engineering fields are more competitive than others for admission (biomed at JHU, for example).</p>
<p>I found there was a lot to learn about engineering. We went with a few safeties a few reaches and a few matches like everyone else - based on SATs and GPA, activities, rigor, etc., - everything we were told and read. But, the demographics seem to have skewed the results. </p>
<p>Oh, definitely, at smaller schools - visit, talk with profs, do the interview, even if it's far - I think we did not show enough interest for two of the smaller schools on his list. We all work and just did not have enough time to travel everywhere 2 and 3 times and son was not one who felt comfortable emailing profs, etc. - he didn't think the prof wanted to be bothered - I don't know the answer to that but it seems a memorable name in this huge applicant pool is better than having no name recognition. </p>
<p>Good luck to you both.</p>
<p>Second the recommendation for Lafayette, Lehigh, Bucknell and Va Tech. All have other majors in case he changes his mind. Also many flagship State U's, and how about Texas A & M?</p>
<p>My info on Stevens Inst. of Tech is old, but I wouldn't recommend it. Kids I knew who went there were miserable. And if he leaves engineering, they don't offer much else.</p>
<p>Be aware of pre professional engineering schools and programs as well. I have two sons in Engineering and the schools are very different.</p>
<p>Son at large private was accepted into the Engineering program as a freshman. Son at large State U is in a preprofessional program and must apply to the professional program after his sophomore year. Only students above a certain GPA and with all prerequisites in get into the field of their choice for the Junior Year. This was not a concern given sons stats adn his early grades are great but it is something to be aware of.</p>
<p>Lafalum84, do you know why the kids were miserable at Stevens? I know some one considering going there.</p>
<p>Srobin, have you considered UAHuntsville? Being from AL, can you tell me something about this school? Is it any good?</p>
<p>Someboysmom:</p>
<p>I believe that the University of Alabama at Huntsville is a decent school. I don't know alot about it. I have a couple of friends who had daughters who went to the University of North Alabama. I believe it is in Florence and they loved it. It is a smaller school but still part of the University of Alabama system. I believe that they generous with financial aid.</p>
<p>Since we live in south Alabama my son if he goes to his safety would rather be at the University of Alabama B'ham or in Tuscaloosa since he would be closer to friends etc. We used to live in B'ham so he still has childhood friends he grew up with going to school there. If you havent' considered it UAB is a great school and has recently opened new freshman dorms and has a new state of the art recreation facility. We visited in December and I was impressed. UAB is convenient to everything and has an outstanding medical school and dental school if your interest lies in those areas.</p>
<p>How about Clemson?</p>
<p>At NC State students are accepted directly into the college of engineering as freshman, thereby making admission to COE more competitive than admission to most other colleges within the univeristy (with the exception of the College of Design which is the most competitive). Once accepted as a freshman, it is up to the student to succeed or not but there is no competition for his "spot" in the COE once he is in.</p>
<p>How about Notre Dame? Our student is currently a soph there and is very challenged by the curriculum. And, ND has a great relationship with many of the major aero firms in the country-Lockheed, Raythen, Boeing, etc. Check it out!!</p>
<p>Wash U also has a great relationship with those firms, but Wash U Engineering is very poor and they are getting rid of the aerospace program; students majoring in Mechanical Engineering will have trouble fulfilling the requirements since many courses are not longer offered.</p>
<p>You've gotten a lot of great suggestions here. When my s was debating between physics and Engineering (he ended up majoring in Mech Eng with a concentration in Physics) he looked at many of the schools on this thread. WPI is where the Segway was developed, and they are known to have good co-op opportunities. Ga Tech also has an excellent Co-op program, and has many other humanities options and majors to balance out the engineering programs. Tech is, I believe, less "make it or break it" than it used to be.</p>
<p>I agree that the schools on our list are all reaches, not only for your s but for most students. I agree that Carnegie is a good addition (though also still a bit of a reach), as is Lehigh and Bucknell. If the SATs come up, UF might also be worth considering, though again it is a reach for an OOS'er. What state are you in?</p>
<p>We live in south Alabama. Why are the schools so hung up on the SAT's. I have read somewhere that most colleges would accept the ACT instead of the SAT. If that is indeed true then his ACT score should definitely help. He has every intention of retaking it and scoring a 33-35 on it. His math score was a 33 as well as a high score on the reading and english portions. This could be just wishful thinking on my part. DS is convinced that his SAT score will go up on the next round and that he will score well on the Subject tests. </p>
<p>After my relaying some of your suggestions he is now at least talking about a a few of the schools mentioned in the posts.</p>
<p>Yes, if he achieves 33-35 on the ACT, it will improve his options.</p>
<p>My sons never sent SAT scores to any schools and just used the ACT only. NO problems even in Ivy league apps. (although he was waitlisted at Penn)</p>
<p>Engineering matches to slight reach I like and sons researched</p>
<p>USC (getting tough to get into)
Cal Poly (truly overlooked program)
U Missouri Rolla (another great overlooked program)
Case Western</p>
<p>Great Safeties I really like with very good engineering with possibility of Merit $$</p>
<p>Oregon State
Washington State
Seattle Univ
Univ of Nevada
Univ Of Wyo (well funded and significant $$ a possibility)
Univ OF Arizona</p>
<p>^^^Just a note, the University of MO-Rolla has been renamed. It is now Missouri University of Science and Technology (not sure of the acronym being employed; MUST? MST?)</p>