<p>I agree with bone but a MBA is not necessary to get into engineering management. I get the feeling that some people on here think a MBA is going to suddenly propel them into an executive position. It won’t hurt, but it is not an automatic ticket into management by any means. I’m really not sure how much weight it carries in most cases. None of the engineering managers that I know have MBAs.</p>
<p>Stop the nonsense, you are all correct.</p>
<p>A medium level MBA is useful to proceed on the management level upward mobility track of a large corporation and is a good idea particularly if the company pays for it. I have several engineer friends that have now done this at GE and P&G for instance.</p>
<p>A top level MBA would not only be helpful for entry into the top Investment Banks, Money Management firms, hedge funds, Venture capital firms, Private Equiity firms and Consulting firms but ALSO into some of the higher and more powerful departments in the large corporations - for instance, some large corporations traditionally only hire MBA’s from the top ten in the areas such as Corporate Planning. Conoco Phillips has done this in the past.</p>
<p>Then there is the situation where you, as an Engineer, start your own company. A top MBA would not be needed, just taking some classes in the area of finance, accounting and Marketing might be enough.</p>
<p>And once again, the most important factor to enter the highest levels of management is having solid social connections. The most valuable asset a person attending a top MBA program obtains is new personal connections and social relationships.</p>
<p>Entering the “elite” circles in any kind of group setting is not just about how qualified one may be; fitting in with the group is actually more important than sporting a shiny degree from an Ivy (and if you do sport a shiny degree from an Ivy more than likely you will fit the group).</p>
<p>Want some proof? Take a look at a list of Goldman Sachs employees that have moved to the highest positions in government and industry: Robert Rubin, Henry Paulson, Jon Corzine, John Thain, among others.</p>
<p>One simply does not walk into Mordor! In most cases, someone has to vouch for you, someone has to know what kind of work you do, someone has to be 100% sure that you walk in lockstep with the group’s mentality. Thinking that you can simply walk in with a shiny resume will only happen in extremely rare cases.</p>
<p>Degrees don’t give you jobs, people do.</p>
<p>Enginox, yes, this does happen, but I would suggest that it is one of the valuable assets. Whether its the most valuable asset depends on the individual.</p>
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<p>the sad reality of this sentiment (which is true) is that the vast majority of poor and middle class people will never fit in, despite all their accomplishments and attributes. thus, social mobility is limited as it is tough to break into the truly elite circles. horatio algier is a myth :P</p>
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<p>The reality of what you say is hardly as sobering as the portrait you paint. </p>
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[quote]
One millionaire, when asked why he thought there are four times as many millionaire entrepreneurs as there are millionaire employees, stated it this way:
There are more people [employees] today working at jobs that they don’t like. I’ll tell you honestly that the successful man is a guy who works at a job, who likes his work, who can’t wait to get up in the morning to get down to the office, and that’s my criteria. And I’ve always been that way. I can’t wait to get up and get down to the office and get my job underway.</p>
<ul>
<li>The Millionaire Next Door <a href=“20%20years%20of%20research%20went%20into%20this%20book”>/quote</a></li>
</ul>
<p>In short, I guess my point is more of a question, why do you strive to surround yourself with these elite people in the first place? If its money, read the quote you dont need to belong in the elite circles to have it. If its power, especially the kind of political power previously mentioned in this thread, Id seriously ask you to gain more insight into the kind of people that run Washington. </p>
<p>Its just so damn tiring reading yet another thread about how to get onto Wall Street in an engineering forum, and even worse, spouting a pity party about how the middle class and poor can hardly ever make it there.</p>
<p>How true…:</p>
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<p>Purduefrank mirrors my thoughts exactly. I mean, who honestly feels so insecure about themselves that they strive to gain the acceptance of these plaid short 'n polo wearing caddy-driving stingy d-bags? It’s like freakin high school all over again… give me a break.</p>
<p>If it werent so scary itd be sad, half the country feels that way.</p>
<p>hadsed, how about people that grew up in those environments?</p>
<p>but they would not strive to gain acceptance, they would already be part of that group, or would slowly morph into that group as time passes by</p>
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<p>IP law is lucrative</p>
<p>crack dealing is lucrative</p>
<p>but obviously carries negative stigma and substantial risks.</p>
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<p>it is not so much insecurity as ambition. if you want to be a corporate exec or something on that level, you are going to need to fit in with that crowd at some point, even if you circumvent wall street. if you aspire for a high profile in society, you need to do it. </p>
<p>the nerdy anti-social engineer who comes to work and doesn’t integrate with the office politics properly will never get ahead. it is perfectly fine to be content with being a lifetime engineer, but also realize that some want to achieve leadership roles in their organizations.</p>
<p>[Where</a> the Fortune 50 CEOs Went to College - TIME](<a href=“http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1227055,00.html]Where”>http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1227055,00.html)</p>
<p>There are more CEOs from non-ivy league schools than there are from ivy league schools, and that’s a percentage basis. See link above.</p>
<p>I don’t disagree that there is a lot of social requirements to rise among the ranks, but thinking that you can only get those skills and connections from attending hoity-toity schools is rather arrogant and ignorant.</p>
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I see the point you’re making, but at the same time you can safely assume that most of those people who aspire to get to the top usually are just power hungry or money hungry. I mean, it’s like joining a gang, you gotta kill a family, rape a woman, and then be in it for a while until you can get your buddies to bring their pro-tools to rob banks. Infact, when I look at it from that perspective, it’s really not too much different than climbing the corporate ladder…</p>
<p>To me it’s just a sad way to live life.</p>
<p>Japher, 10% of those CEO’s come from only 3 schools, Princeton, Harvard and Yale. This would be considered a large percentage considering that there are over 2,000 colleges in the U.S.</p>
<p>If you looked at the top people at the top 50 Investment Banks, Law Firms, Private Equity Firms and Hedge Funds, I would imagine that the HYP plus Penn representation would be higher than 10%.</p>
<p>JohnAdams, I’m not sure what you’re trying to prove. It’s widely accepted that the HYP guys get a hell of a lot more chances in IBanking and such than the rest of the 2000 colleges in the U.S., hence why 10% really isn’t that high. However, I think what’s being talked about is more in the area of entrepreneurism. I think there is a difference between Wall Street and actually building your business from the ground up. If you’re talking about rising to CEO, well that’s just climbing the corporate ladder and yeah maybe it has to do with Wall Street, but still different. I think the point is that the smart engineer and technical-oriented guys who are driven to succeed in great ways don’t have to be Ivy alumns, and in most cases are more successful than being IB’s or hedge funds analysts since they own their companies.</p>
<p>I’m a business school professor, with 20 years and having taught at a top 10, an Ivy and a state school. I will just chime in to say there is so much noise on this thread- authoritative voices stating so many blatantly incorrect ‘facts’ about engineers and MBAs that well, I think if you are seriously considering this route, ignore advice on anonymous forums and threads like this. I could go through and dissect it but frankly, it gets really tiresome. There is so much mythology out there it seems pointless trying to fix it all. But much if it is, simply, mythology.</p>
<p>Could you just post some general thoughts on the matter starbright? I’m sure it would help a lot of people.</p>