Engineering Without Physics

I am a female student from New York who is going into their senior year of high school. My mom wants me to try to go into engineering because there are a lot of schools who offer money to women going into the engineering field. She also says there are great starting jobs for women going into engineering. I am looking to double major in business and engineering in college because business interests me but I don’t know if it is realistic.

I am a full IB diploma candidate but I am not doing any physics in school. I am doing two years of IB bio for my diploma instead. I am also doing an internship with my old chemistry teacher.

For my group 6 I took anthropology and for my extended essay I am doing English. These obviously won’t help me in the fields.

My overall unweighted average is a 95.6932 and my overall weighted average is a 101.0968.

Although I am not doing physics in school I am taking an online class given by RICE university. However, I find it extremely overwhelming because I work as a lifeguard and all of my IB requirements to complete over the summer. Also, the course will expire soon and I don’t know if colleges will be able to see if I completed it after expiration.

I’m wondering if this physics class will even help me get into an engineering program or if I’m wasting my time. Would schools reject me because I don’t have physics even though I have a lot of rigor in my courses without it?

Depends on how selective the college or its engineering division is.

However, the bigger issue is that if you have not had physics in high school, physics in college as required for engineering majors will be more difficult. In high schools that do not offer stuff like PLTW, physics is also a way of checking how interested you may be, since engineering is the application of science (usually mostly physics) to design problems.

How are you doing in math?

Physics uses math more than other sciences. For me, this made physics the easiest and most interesting of the sciences (until I got to special relativity, which for me was hard but doable).

If you are good in math, then you should like engineering and also like physics. However, it sounds like you need to drop something. Even for very smart students with very high GPA there is a hard limit regarding how much you can do at one time. It sounds like you have passed this limit and dropping something does seem sensible.

You might want to ask your parents whether dropping the lifeguard job would in the long run be better investment of your time compared to dropping physics. Another option would be to see if you could still switch IB bio for IB physics.

If you don’t take any physics in high school it would make physics in university a bit harder, but you probably could still handle it especially if you are good in math.

Most of the competitive engineering programs require four years of science, including physics. If you are serious about engineering, I would make that the priority this summer or chance your schedule next year at take it at school.

Do you want to do engineering or are you just looking into it because your mom said to?

I would think long and hard about engineering - and YOUR reasons for wanting to study it, not your mother’s. It is a rigorous program anywhere and if you aren’t really interested in it, whether or not you have the fortitude to get through it, it will be even tougher to be successful.

I don’t think not taking physics in HS alone is enough for your application into engineering to not be taken seriously but look at how you present yourself as a whole. A college consultant told us that competitive programs are looking for a body of work that demonstrates interest in the field/major you identify as wanting to study. She cited an example of a student applying to a Top 20 in chemistry who had all journalism related ECs and none in chemistry so it didn’t make sense to the adcoms and the student was denied admission despite having great stats.

My daughter is a senior in HS and interested in studying engineering in college. Nearly everything she does tells that story - robotics club, STEM camp volunteer, robotics camp counselor, math honor society president, AP Physics, AP Calc, AP Computer Science, high math SAT / ACT scores, math and physics SAT subject tests.

What would you choose to study, just based on what really interests you? (I’m not saying career prospects aren’t important, but it would be helpful to get the picture of what your real interests are, apart from your mother’s aspirations.) Is business what interests you most, or is it just a compromise between what interests you and what sounds practical?

There are two separate issues vis-a-vis physics. One is admissions… and there are certain schools/programs that the lack of physics will keep you out of, but I rather doubt that those would be the best choice for you anyway. The other is being set up for success in college… but you could always take a class next summer if that’s the concern.

If I understand the Rice U class correctly, it isn’t credit-bearing anyway; it just covers the material for those who want to self-study for the AP test… which you wouldn’t be taking until after the admissions process anyway. So this really shouldn’t be an issue admissions-wise, one way or the other.

For one to double major in business & engineering it would likely require 5 years of study at the undergraduate level.

Agreed with @DCCAWAMIIAIL that your course load and ECs need to align with an interest in engineering, especially for STEM focused programs (although those may not be the best fit for you anyway since you’d like to double major). The majority of students, DD included, that went for engineering doubled and tripled up in math/science throughout HS. As an aside, at some schools, it is not possible to double major in those two areas so do your research.

Like so many other students, I started college as an engineering major because it seemed the best path to a fairly secure future. And like many of those students, I realized quickly it wasn’t for me and changed to Math/CS.

My son is an engineering major, and I would not recommend starting out as an engineering major without having taken physics in high school. I’m not sure how an online class would be viewed - certainly you’re doing it through a highly reputable school, but is there a lab component? Many aspects of physics are best understood by doing hands-on experimentation.

I would recommend you reach out to see if you can find some people who are in different areas of engineering - as they are very different. Then see if you can job shadow them to better understand the field. What a Civil engineer does is very different from a mechanical engineer which is different from electrical. Bear in mind that if you get an engineering degree, you don’t need to be - or remain - an engineer your entire life, you can go into other fields and you technical knowledge can be incredibly helpful. But you can’t be an engineer without an accredited degree.

Double majoring as an engineer is difficult to do in 4 years. Many engineering students have a hard time graduating in 4 years without a double major or a minor, due to the strict sequencing and pre-requisites for courses. Even students going in with some AP credit still often struggle to fulfill all the requirements of the degree as well as whatever core courses are required by the school.

If you wanted to go into business later, you might be lucky enough to land a job that would help you earn an MBA somewhere down the road.

Have you had ANY physics in high school? If not, I’m not sure how you’d know whether or not you want to major in engineering.

You are my daughter kind of. I never pushed her towards engineering but she was also an IB student who had zero physics before starting her engineering program. She had pre-AP physics but it was a joke.

I won’t lie, the first year was rather brutal because of Physics. She PASSED though so we were all very happy with that. The ONE thing that helped keep me sane is that through it all she really enjoyed the work and what she was learning. She is excited to be in engineering. It would be a total beat down otherwise.

If YOU want to be in engineering then you can muddle through. You don’t have to make an A+ in physics in college. But you do need to want to be an engineer. Otherwise you will have zero motivation and drive to power through that first year.

I don’t see how a kid chooses engineering without physics experience. There are homeschool kids who do a course online, but not their only experience with the subject. You also need labs.

Add to that, it’s a collaborative field. Yes, for a highly selective college, you need collaborative math-sci activities. If there’s any engn supplement in the app, how do you expect to answer about your interest and prep? It’s a whole lot more than '…sounds interesting" or “I do well in math.” Definitely more than wanting to save the world. To me, it’s a mindset.

Sure, there are kids who eke through, at a non competitive college. Those aren’t usually the ones finding later work in the interesting roles or at higher pay.

Plus, of course we need more women engineers. But there are so many great engn gals in the pipeline now, lots of hs prep, math-sci rigor, the ECs, intern experience and more. And gals now succeeding with this in college. You don’t just pick it because someone says it can be lucrative.

Do you know what engineers really do?

@lookingforward lots of kids have a math aptitude and know they want to create and build things. Some don’t have access to physics or discover this is how they want to funnel the math and science aptitude after it’s too late to incorporate physics into their high school course load. I wouldn’t recommend it for sure…but it’s looking like my kid will prevail.

@ostudento your Mom is SUPER incorrect in assuming “lots of colleges will offer you money” because you are a female going into engineering. My daughter did not find that to be true at ALL. $$ was offered because of her stats.

Finally, you CAN get in without physics. Mine was accepted to some highly ranked engineering programs without AP physics (again, she had pre-AP physics, just not AP physics). If you can finish the Rice online class it will be super helpful for you though.

Math skill is important. Not all engn is building things, not at all. Kids see the ideas like the renegade dropout who starts a billion dollar tech co. Or the folks improving on prosthetics or sending rockets to the moon and miss the actual nature of the work, week to week.

Kudos to your D. It’s a fascinating field. Even pre-AP at least exposes one. Maybe your D had some relevant ECs? Not sure this OP can explain her interest. Even the summer course is “extremely overwhelming.” It’s a different situation.

In my view, one needs two essential ingredients to be successful in any field: 1) a strong interest, and 2) some natural talent in that field. The OP demonstrated neither. Sure, plenty of people manage to muddle through, but they generally won’t find the end results satisfying.

If you aren’t personally interested in engineering, it’s going to be a slog. The road is littered with students who were talked into engineering due to their proclivity in math and the field’s earning potential.

An enjoyment of math for math’s sake and an inherent curiosity are both good prognostic indicators for engineering success. I, for one, don’t think lack of physics is disqualifying. It will simply make it harder.

If YOU really want to do engineering, you’ll find a way to make it work. I’d do Kahn academy, not the AP versions, but the first intro that most would encounter in 9th grade this summer. It is not calculus based, but will familiarize you with the subject. It’ll give you a bit of foundation for college Physics I, and give you a tiny taste of the field. I wouldn’t be too concerned with the credit, or slogging through the Rice course that is overwhelming, unless you are 1) convinced you can finish 2) convinced you can get a solid understanding, and 3) convinced you can get a good grade. If it’s a MOOC and not a true online college class for credit, you can bail now. Colleges won’t generally recognize MOOCs.

As for the business double, most posters on this forum advise that it will interfere with getting an engineering job. It’s evidence that you don’t intend to be a practicing engineer. Most companies won’t throw a new grad without experience into a managerial role. The exception might be IE, but others can comment on that.

An alternative is to get an engineering degree with no intent to practice engineering, but as a foundation for a finance career. If you choose this route you could do a non-ABET accredited degree. It will have less technical requirements and thus more freedom to add business classes.

What state are you from?

Yeh, tell mom that you aren’t qualified because of lack of physics or whatever. Parents do a lot of harm with that sort of thing, wanting you to be successful and not caring about how it effects you.

Industrial engineering is not physics focused and fits well for business later on. See if you have any interest in this. Many minor in business and move on to business later on if, this is something that interests you. But please go into a field that interests you and not your mother. Let her read this thread. At a lot of engineering schools like 30-40% of the students don’t make it. It’s not easy but worthwhile with a lot of effort.

I doubt good schools would give you scholarship money if you don’t show strong interest/aptitude in engineering. Many engineering schools look for strong grades/AP scores in subjects such as physics and calc. Also, they expect a good score on SAT II’s, especially math (usually math II), physics or chem. I would have at least 700 or 750+ in two of those subjects.

Engineering schools are known for accepting applicants with higher grades and test scores than their science/arts counterparts. Part of their reasoning is making sure you’re interested and know the strains of these tough subjects.