Medical doctors are being replaced by Nurse Practioners. Just happened to a large group in Illinois. This reality is being talked about even in my sub speciality. They are entering orthopedics,etc. This is the future. That might be a fall back…no doctor I know is telling their kids to go into medicine… Just looked up and the sky is not falling yet ?.
At some colleges like Michigan all the first year students take all their basic requirements together. So medical and physics majors in Physics classes. Math majors in Calc and beyond classes. My engineering son said after the first quiz many people left. After the first midterm it was like a mass exodus and many said they are no longer going into medicine, engineering etc. Lot of them looking at economics… (not easy by any means).
But… You are able to start in LSA and cross campus transfer into engineering by meeting some requirements if she’s thinking chemistry VS engineering. But some schools you “Have” to be accepted directly into engineering and many schools you can’t even do internal transfers to another engineering field. This I would look into…
But I find this program intriguing. It’s a medical program with the cross roads of engineering and medicine. It’s brand-new but interesting to me http://www.med.illinois.edu/
I also am not in favor of 3/2 programs when other options are available.
It is my opinion as the parent of both a Chemical Engineer and a pre Healthcare daughters is that if your child were interested in engineering and had an interest in possibly considering medicine then it might work but would require a LOT of work. I’m not a big proponent of using engineering as a back up to medicine. They can find themselves stuck in a field they don’t really like or sabotaging both their degree and their hopes of medical school. There are those who do it and are successful but they have to be very engaged in their path.
The good news is - all of the other schools she is interested in are larger state schools (and Tulane - where you enter as a student; not engineering or arts/sciences) so it was just this one school that was bugging me. My guess is she’ll end up at a large school because I think it just fits her “lifestyle” better - she’s very into school spirit, wants to be in marching band, loves the idea of big time football, etc.
Over the next 9 months or so, I’m going to have her look into what it really means to be an engineer and to be a Science major - the youtube videos someone mentioned upthread look really great. This is really her choice and she should go in with open eyes.
I really do think if she chooses engineering she will be choosing to NOT be a doctor. I don’t think she has any intention of doing pre-med curriculum and an engineering curriculum.
My wallet would love it if she would do lots of research and be confident in the direction she wants to go as she pushes submit on those applications, but I know that’s not always the way it works out.
Funny about nurse practitioners - her “endocrinologist” is a NP. My daughter has had type 1 diabetes since she was 10 and she used to see a doctor once a year and the NP the other three visits, but I don’t think we’ve seen the doctor in 3 years. Her NP is great: smart, caring, responsive, proactive and always open to new technology/ideas - we absolutely love her! I wonder if she would consider that path. I don’t even know what’s involved. More research for her … she really likes her NP, so she may be open to it.
Larger colleges, including Michigan, usually offer several different sequences for the intro science and math requirements that are the pre-med requirements. Physics majors generally take the most rigorous intro physics sequence, and pre-med students generally take one of the least rigorous sequences. Engineering majors often fall in between. For example, Michigan’s sequences are described at https://lsa.umich.edu/physics/undergraduate-students/introductory-physics-courses.html and summarized below. Physics majors would typically take 160, engineering 140, and pre-med 135. Michigan students mention that the pre-med physics sequence (135) uses less math than the engineering sequence (140), mostly using algebra, rather than calculus. At several other selective colleges that are often discussed on this site, the pre-med intro physics sequence does not use calculus at all.
PHYSICS 160/260 – “The preferred sequence for students interested in any science concentration, especially physics”
PHYSICS 140/240 – “Prospective physical science and engineering students”
PHYSICS 135/235 – “Prospective life science students and those interested in the health professions”
PHYSICS 120 – “Students who feel their mathematics preparation is weak, especially those who have not taken calculus”
However, this does necessarily mean that engineering pre-meds are at a disadvantage in grading because their intro physics course uses more math, and math is hard. Instead the grade distribution tends to correlate with the quality of students doing excellent work, rather than having the same grade distribution for all sequences. For example, Physics 160 above probably uses the most rigorous math, yet is also known for having an especially generous curve compared to the other intro physics sequences, with a much larger portion of the class receiving A’s. The best sequence option varies depending on the particular student. If physics and/or math is a weak area, one might favor a less rigorous sequence. If physics+math is a strong area and/or interest, one might favor a more rigorous sequence.
Our CBE (chemical and biomolecular) is heading to grad school to specialize in drug delivery, one of the many concentrations of chemical engineering. She could have easily completed premed requirements instead of an entrepreneurial minor. The only additions would have been taking basic biology courses instead of upper level bio and an easy physics lab for a course she already tutored. Her premed friends struggled with Organic Chemistry because they were memorizing instead of problem solving.
Was the engineering curriculum easy, no. However, it is possible to get top grades as they are required for PHD programs and fellowships. MD PHD applicants have high GPAs, research experiences, a rigorous science or engineering curriculum and all of the other premed requirements.
Unfortunately I’ve spent a few years with doctors at teaching hospitals. Many are talented scientists in addition to being incredibly talented clinicians. Honestly, I want to know that my doctor is a scientist, critical thinker and problem solver, not just following a protocol.
Going to college, taking courses and getting research experience will help your daughter decide if she wants to be a scientist or engineer and she can also be a physician if she still has that passion at 22.
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