Environment vs. Academic/Career Opportunities?

College Search & Selection
1

Hi everyone! I am a senior in high school trying to choose between my offers. As of now, my top choices are UT Austin and the University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign; I have been accepted to both as a Chemical Engineering major. Unfortunately, when it comes down to choosing between the two, I’m in a bit of a rut…

My choices are:
a. Go to a school where I fit in socially and really love the overall atmosphere of its surroundings.
b. Go to a school that I can better afford and will receive more academic, career opportunities.

Choice A, elaborated:
UT has been my dream school since I first learned of its existence as a sophomore. UT has an excellent engineering program, and there are amazing opportunities for jobs in the petroleum industry. UT also has a great social scene. There are so many social events, and the football games are sure to be fun. It’s also extremely diverse, which I love. I resonate greatly with the people in the UT Facebook group! They’re so friendly and have (for the most part) the same interests and quirky humor as me. Furthermore, Austin is an amazing city! I love the nature and small-town feel with all the big-city resources. I’m a huge foodie and I love music and the visual arts. I can definitely picture myself loving, and possibly deciding to live in, Austin. Unfortunately, UT is really expensive OOS, and I will not be receiving any scholarships. My family income is too high for me to receive any financial aid and my parents don’t want to pay >30k a year, so I will have to take out quite a few loans.

Choice B, elaborated:
UIUC is a wonderful choice for an engineering major. In fact, it’s ranked higher in engineering than UT. The amount of interdisciplinary research opportunities is astounding, even at the undergraduate level. The engineering department has 4 career fairs a year, and the Chemistry/Chemical Engineering advisors said that recruiters come into their office to ask for specific names! There are many clubs and sports to get involved in. I have been admitted into the honors program, which will be great in terms of class sizes and research/networking opportunities, as well as class registration! I have also received a scholarship, so I don’t have to be worried financially. I’m from a Northern California suburb, so I have a few major cities within 20-30 minutes from me, and San Francisco less than an hour from me. I prefer city campuses to college towns, and I know I’ll miss being near big cities, no matter how much is happening on campus. Although the students there are really friendly, I feel like I fit in more with the students at UT. Also, it’s snowy and gloomy, and I’m a California native, haha.

Any advice would be more than welcome! Thanks :slight_smile:

2

Why aren’t you looking at any universities in California?

The only loans you can take on your own are the federal student loans - $5,500 freshman year, $6,500 sophomore year, $7,500 junior year, and $7,500 senior year. If that won’t cover the difference between what your parents can afford and what the college/university costs, then your parents will have to borrow the money.

UIUC isn’t all that cheap either. Run the numbers through this calculator, and talk them over with your parents. http://www.finaid.org/calculators/awardletteradvanced.phtml

3

@happymomof1‌ I don’t really find that the UCs are a good fit for me socially and academically, but I’m still considering them.

I filled out the FAFSA and I will only be able to receive $5.5k in unsubsidized loans a year. I will be taking out Stafford loans for sure. My parents will co-sign, but there’s no way they’re going to take the foot of the bill in the end. I don’t necessarily want to be stuck with loans, but I’m not going to force them to pay off my debts for me.

I actually got a scholarship from UIUC that will significantly lower the cost of attendance to the point where it’s manageable without taking out private loans.

4

What are your costs? If you got no aid at UT and your parents don’t want to pay over $30K a year, then UT is unaffordable for you. The CoA at UT is around $48K per year for out of state residents. If your parents will pay $30K a year, that leaves a $18K shortfall. You’d have to borrow that, which would come out to $72K over four years. That’s not a sustainable amount of debt for an undergraduate degree.

How much is the scholarship at UIUC? If you really love the social life and academics at UIUC, then you’ll be fine without being near a big city for 9 months of the year. It’s only four years, and every college will require some compromises - no choice is perfect.

What about the UCs make you feel that they aren’t a good fit for you socially and academically?

5

@juillet‌ I think I may be leaning toward UIUC; the scholarship basically covers the difference between in-state and OOS tuition. Working 20 hrs/week to get in-state tuition at UT seems like it would be hard as an engineering major.

I’ve actually gotten into a few UCs as a ChemE major as of now (SD, Davis, SB). I am waiting for the rest of the decisions, but I still have options. I went to a competitive CA public high school that is somewhat of a feeder to Cal. The environment was ridiculously cutthroat (10+ valedictorians a year with 5.0 GPAs on average). For reference, my neighbor is a really nice kid, but he got bullied to an extreme: kicked, yogurt poured on him, and hit in the head (it actually fractured his skull if I remember correctly). Why? He was the top in his classes and first chair for violin. He ended up transferring to another local high school after freshman year. I ended up transferring as well. I hated the environment. My chats with current/recent graduates of the more competitive UCs have confirmed that they are extremely cutthroat, and I can only imagine that the engineering majors are even more cutthroat than the general crowd. I also don’t like the quarter system. It seems too jam-packed for me; I’ve always had a better long term memory, so I’d prefer a more drawn-out semester system. I also don’t want to just be a number, which seems common at the UCs. It’s probably similar at UT, unfortunately. At UIUC, there seems to be quite a lot of professor-student interaction, and I think I’ll get even more opportunities for individual interaction as an honors student.

I’ve noticed that people in other parts of the country are much friendlier on my college visits. Also, I hope to broaden my horizons by living in a different part of the country (I’m born and raised Californian).

6

UIUC is the better choice of the two. You can keep loving Austin and with the money you save you can take a few weekend getaways during the cold season to get your fix.

7

Were such students pre-meds?

I don’t see why cutthroatism or lack of it should necessarily differ by school in a general sense, although it may be greater if students are not admitted directly to your major and must compete for admission to the major with a high GPA. The UCs, UT, and UIUC are all big state universities, so there will be many ways where they are more similar than you think they are.

8

Thanks for your input @redpoodles‌ ! I appreciate it :slight_smile:

@ucbalumnus‌ I have heard the most horror stories about Cal, so most of my cutthroat confessions are from their students/grads. One is currently a biochem major at Cal, though I’m not sure if she is trying to get into medical school. She has to time everything she does (with a timer), and follows an extremely rigid schedule that is planned by the week. Recent engineering grads have told me (pretty generally) that the classes are very rigorous. They didn’t specifically say that the environment was cutthroat, but it was somewhat implied. My SAT instructor is a recent Cal alum and she said that the people are nice, but it is really competitive and she wasn’t sure if I’d like it (no idea what she majored in). I’m most likely steering clear of Cal (it’s also way too close to home for me), but I’m considering taking a go at UCLA (assuming I get in) or UCSD. I do think that there are always cutthroat people anywhere (especially in the engineering crowd), but from talking to students/alums/parents from other schools such as UIUC, UMich, U of Minnesota, and UT, it seems that their engineering environments are generally more collaborative. I’m not sure why it seems to vary, though… maybe the water (or the lack of water in California, haha… Drought jokes are not funny; I apologize).

I have also heard from multiple UC students and grads that it’s somewhat hard to get the classes you need to graduate. Again, it’s probably similar at UT, unfortunately. The students at UIUC have said that they have seen no problems graduating in 4 years (excluding people who did co-ops) other than for those with intensive minors or were double-majoring.

9

Rigorous does not necessarily mean cutthroat. I do not recall engineering being cutthroat.

At Berkeley, you can expect heavily competitive behavior in majors popular with pre-meds (e.g. biology type majors), due to the high GPA needed to get into medical school (particularly California public medical schools, where there is a relative shortage of spaces relative to applicants looking for lower in-state tuition). Frosh/soph pre-business students may also be more prone to exhibit this behavior, due to the difficulty of getting admitted to the business major.

“Hard to get into classes” is probably just an excuse by those who do not want to take 8am classes, since Berkeley has high four year graduation rates among public universities (72%, versus 69% at UIUC and 51% at UT), though probably due to admission selectivity for the most part.

10

@ucbalumnus‌ How long has it been since you’ve graduated?

The pre-med competitiveness makes sense. I don’t want to completely rule out the UCs by any means; my parents are both proud Bruins. They went to UCLA for undergrad and medical school.

I agree that some people just don’t want to wake up early, but I do think that the rumor about the difficulty of getting classes (maybe GEs in particular?) has been circulating around enough for it to be a bit concerning. I know my extremely cheap mom is particularly concerned about it, to the point that she may not want to send me to a UC. Admittedly, she’s also concerned that I’ll die in the large GE classes. (She wants me to go to University of Arizona or the University of Minnesota because of cost/what she’s heard about class availability and size.)

11

Berkeley has a scheduling system where each student choose about half of his/her schedule before anyone gets to choose the rest. Presumably, students will pick their most important classes (often in their major) in the first phase. Departments can also prioritize enrollment in classes by major, class standing, class level, and/or new/continuing status. This presumably means that you should not have too much difficulty getting into your major classes, but may have to choose different out-of-major classes if the most popular ones are full.

You can go to the forum sections for each school and ask about getting into classes.

You can look at the on-line schedules to see large the classes are at each school.

Minnesota is good for chemical engineering and is relatively inexpensive, but you must make a 3.2 GPA to be assured entry into the major; students with lower GPAs are admitted on a space-available basis.

12

@ucbalumnus‌ I’ll ask in the forums about getting classes, and I’ll check online. Thanks for telling me about the scheduling system! I feel like it’d be hard to get some of your GEs if they’re out of your major with the Berkeley system.

I actually received a full out-of-state tuition waiver for Minnesota, so the cost (in-state tuition is around $25k, I believe) ends up being even cheaper than that of the UCs. I’m actually at a hotel in Minnesota right now; I’ve been checking out the school for the past few days! The improbability of getting into the ChemE major is a huge concern for me. I feel like I could manage a 3.2, but I may be wrong. I don’t think it’s a risk worth taking, as their programs in other areas aren’t as strong.

13

UT Austin because if you go into petroleum engineering, you’re almost guaranteed a first year job in the 6 digits. Also, you gotta have a memorable college experience!

14

@0br0123‌ The UT crowd is amazing! I love the people in my admitted class so much; they’re incredibly friendly, funny, and talented (at least the people on the UT19 group). Austin itself is also amazing. Of course, the petroleum industry in Texas is beyond thriving! I love the UT environment the best by far, and that’s making it really tough for me to choose a school :’(

15

@0br0123, actually, the oil industry is laying off people now.

16

I honestly would prefer to go into pharmaceuticals, if that helps with the decision at all. I know you can have a concentration in Biomolecular Engineering at UIUC, which is great for pharm. I’m not sure how it works at UT.

17

Pick (a), especially when the difference between the two isn’t that great in terms of academics/career placement

18

@puzzled123‌ Thanks for your input! I may have to pick up a bunch of loans, but I feel like I’d be able to pay them off eventually. Chemical engineers tend to have really high starting salaries, to the point that going to grad school is probably more detrimental than beneficial unless you want to go into academics.

I would like to go to grad school to get an MBA eventually, but it’s not a necessity that I do so. I think my dad is pushing toward UIUC to the point that he may be willing to pay a bit over $30k (he went there to get his masters in EE), but I still think I’d prefer UT’s environment. I’ll look into more scholarships and see if it’s viable to graduate with x-amount of debt from undergrad.

19

YOU can’t take more than $5,500 in loans for freshman year; your parents would have to take on the rest.
In short, your best bets as of now are UCs, UIUC, and UMinnesota Twin Cities. If you want to avoid the competitive behavior you describe, avoid UCB, UCLA, and UCSD; UCD, UCSB aren’t as much, and UCSC overall isn’t at all (/hardly at all, because you always have individuals who are :p). UIUC and UMinnesota Twin Cities would both be laid back. The difference between the two is that UIUC is still an engineering powerhouse, but UMN has the Twin Cities, which has many companies for internships/co-ops and are a metropolis, with all that implies for culture, concerts, pro sports, entertainment, etc, etc, vs. Urbana Champaign which is a nice college town but not the nicest college town either. Still nice, since a college town is focused on college students. :slight_smile: In my opinion, UIUC wins for academics, UMN-TC for environment. And of course, MN is colder than IL, although for a Californian it’ll probably feel " freezing cold" regardless.
(Did you get into the Honors College at UMN-TC too?)

20

@MYOS1634‌ Thank you so much for your very objective reply! UCLA and UCSD were actually my top choices out of the UCs, but I’m starting to reevaluate that now… UIUC seems like my best bet out of the colleges you’ve mentioned. I think I’ll be ok with the cold (I snowboard a lot), although it’s quite gloomier than I’m used to.

I do love the city feel of UMN. It’s one of the things that is still making me consider it as an option. Unfortunately, I didn’t get into the honors college at UMN! My ACT is on par, but my hs rank (top 7% I believe) is subpar according to this website: http://admissions.tc.umn.edu/honors/review.html They said that all honors decisions will be out by the end of March, but I highly doubt I’ll get it, haha.