Environmental Engineering School

College Search & Selection
1

<p>If anyone can offer me some knowledgeable advice, I would really appreciate it!</p>

<p>I am a Junior in high school, number 1 in my class of 400, 4.56 and rising weighted GPA, soon to be an Eagle Scout, and graduate of Conserve</a> School: An environmental semester school program in the Northwoods of Wisconsin. Though I have not taken the ACT yet (I will be taking it in December), based upon my prep classes and practice test scores, I'm expecting about a 33. I take extremely rigorous, Honors or AP classes. I am currently taking AP Calculus BC, AP Micro/Macro Economics, Honors Chemistry, Honors Physics, Honors Spanish 4, Honors English 11 and Honors Computer Science Fundamentals. I live in Wisconsin.</p>

<p>It is my hope to go to a 4-year university after high school to study Environmental Engineering, and I intend to pursue a Master's or even PhD as well. I am trying to start deciding on colleges, and really struggling. My dream school is Stanford, though I'm not sure if I could get in, or if I could possibly afford it (I probably wouldn't qualify for much aid, but still can't afford it). I'm also looking at UC-Berkeley, Washington University in St. Louis, Northwestern University, and MIT. However, I am also looking at University of Wisconsin-Madison. I know that Madison can't really compete with the other elite universities I've mentioned, but to my understanding they are rated 17th in the country for Environmental Engineering. Also, it would be a LOT more affordable. This isn't to say that these factors make me want to go there, but they are tempting, and I know that I like the feel of the school.</p>

<p>I really need some advice on the value of an elite university undergraduate education versus its cost. If I went to Madison for undergrad, I would try to go to a big-name like Stanford for my graduate's degree. Also, if anyone has suggestions about the schools I've mentioned, or additional schools, I would be very appreciative! Scholarship advice is welcome as well :)</p>

<p>Thanks Much!</p>

2

<p>No need to be apologetic about UW Madison, especially for this major. They have a great deal to offer for related interdisciplinary studies, from what I recall seeing. Save your money and do well and expect to get into great grad schools, is what I’d say. Make sure to get involved in research projects.</p>

3

<p>I think you underestimate how strong of a university UW-Madison is, particularly for environmental/chemical related fields. Environmental engineering tends to be one of the smallest engineering majors at most schools, which means your major specific classes are likely to also be quite small. Given that, you’d likely be able to easily procure research opportunities as well as internships or co-op positions. I’ve been to two waste management facilities and environmental engineers at both commented/begged people to consider the field. Evidently there are too few majors for the number of positions, particularly in municipal work, out there. </p>

<p>Unless you cannot stomach the thought of Madison, I’d go to UW. You like it, it’s affordable, and it’s a very strong school. </p>

<p>I’m also quite familiar with the environmental engineering program at UC Berkeley (my best friend was an environ engineering major before switching to geophysics). I can’t think of any reason to pay tens of thousands of dollars more per year to go to Berkeley when your in state option is so well respected.</p>

4

<p>Thank you both for the advice. My only concern with Madison is that it’s Environmental Engineering program isn’t Environmental specific until grad school (at least that is my understanding). I believe I’d be combined with the Civil students, so the smaller class sizes and such wouldn’t really apply in that case. Would my education be as strong/valuable if it’s Civil with an environmental focus as it would be if it’s Environmental?</p>

<p>Also, another thing to factor in: I have connections with a trustee at Northwestern, who is a big fan of me. They tell me that if I want to go there, just let them know, and they can get me in. I’m not sure if they’d be able to do anything to help with the price, but I just wanted you to have all the info.</p>

5

<p>Additionally, just to add a little bit to my stats/bio:</p>

<p>I’ve been involved in Future Business Leaders of America since Freshman year. I went to state freshman year for my competition (intro to technology concepts) and took sixth in the entire state. I couldn’t participate in the competition last year because I was away at Conserve School, but I’ll be competing again this year. </p>

<p>I have played piano since kindergarten; never in recitals or bands, just as a personal talent. It’s always been something I really enjoy. </p>

<p>Obviously I’ve been in Boy Scouts since I’m soon to be an Eagle Scout, but to elaborate, I’ve been with the scouting program since first grade, when I joined Cub Scouts as a Tiger Cub. I earned my Arrow of Light in Cub Scouts, and then in Boy Scouts I was elected into the Order of the Arrow (a prestigious and secretive honor brotherhood within Scouting). I am on track to become an Eagle Scout after the Council paper chase, the interview, and the national paper chase. I will then be on track to receive an Eagle Palm after the mandatory 6 month wait period. </p>

<p>I’ve been on my school’s Varsity Downhill Ski Racing Team since freshman year, and I will almost certainly be team captain this winter. </p>

<p>This year I have joined Key Club, Amnesty International, and the Green Team (a small, startup environmental/recycling club at my school). I intend to continue in all of these next year, and hopefully hold a leadership position in either one of these, or in FBLA.</p>

6

<p>From the UW-Madison website it appears as though the CEE department offers all of the traditional courses and research areas that one would expect to find with a chemical related Environ Engineering degree. I’d also be very surprised if you couldn’t cross register with the chem E department for some elective courses. Contact the department with your specific concerns to be sure.</p>

7

<p>What about Illinois Urbana-Champaign? I’m under the impression that they have a very strong Environmental Engineering program. Can anyone confirm this, and/or tell me how it compares to UW-Madison’s?
While we are comparing, can anyone tell me about Washington University in St Louis, or Northwestern’s environmental engineering programs and how they compare?
Thanks so much!</p>

8

<p>UIUC is a great engineering school. I don’t know too much about their environmental engineering program in particular, but their engineering programs are strong and well-known. I live in St. Louis, and Wash U is a really beautiful school. It doesn’t seem they offer a major in energy/environmental engineering, but you can minor in it. Either way, with the major in chemical engineering and a related field with that minor, I’m sure you could land similar job opportunities due to the versatile nature of engineers. I don’t know much about the program, but I would NOT mind going to Wash U at all. Very high standard of living and in a nice part of town, imo.</p>

9

<p>Bump
Bump…
;)</p>

10

<p>My dream school is Stanford, though I’m not sure if I could get in, or if I could possibly afford it (I probably wouldn’t qualify for much aid, but still can’t afford it). I’m also looking at UC-Berkeley, Washington University in St. Louis, Northwestern University, and MIT. However, I am also looking at University of Wisconsin-Madison. I know that Madison can’t really compete with the other elite universities I’ve mentioned, but to my understanding they are rated 17th in the country for Environmental Engineering</p>

<p>If you can’t afford Stanford, and won’t qualify for aid, then Berkeley, MIT, WashU and similar sure won’t be affordable because they’re about the same price and give worse aid.</p>

<p>That said, your family might get aid at Stanford since it gives “Super Aid”…its formula is far more generous than the other pricey schools you mentioned. So, have your parents run the NPCs on Stanford and the others’ websites.</p>

<p>How much WILL your parents pay each year? Will they pay the full COA for UWisc? (probably about $30k per year…if not, that would be a problem)</p>

<p>Wisconsin is certainly more than good enough for your goals. A UW grad with the right stats can get into any school’s grad program. Don’t worry about that. </p>

<p>I would not borrow much for undergrad if you plan on going to grad school. Since you don’t qualify for aid, all your debt would be unsub and it would be growing while in college and in grad school. I don’t think that Enviro Eng’rs get high salaries, so you don’t want to be burdened with big debt at the end.</p>

11

<p>We did try running Stanford’s calculator - nada.
My parents told me the other night that they will contribute 1/2 of the cost of attending UW Madison, each year (Approx. 12.5 K each year). I realize that they are trying to be kinda, and more generous than many, so I should be fortunate, but I’m still a bit crushed. I feel like I would do better if I qualified for aid and didn’t have their help :/</p>

<p>My only hope with WUSTL is the Langsdorf Fellowship, which would give me a full ride. Otherwise I can’t afford to go there either. </p>

<p>I’m looking at outside scholarships, but it seems like they are all one or two thousand dollar ones, which doesn’t do much for a $60K annual cost if attending.</p>

12

<p>$12,500 parental contribution, but no eligibility for need-based financial aid (even at Stanford) => you need to find large merit scholarships. Realistically, you would only be able to add about $10,000 per year at most from direct loans and reasonable amounts of work earnings (so you want to get the net price to under $22,500, preferably less if you want lower debt and/or lower work needs).</p>

<p>Here is your shopping list (and test score targets):</p>

<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/financial-aid-scholarships/1348012-automatic-full-tuition-full-ride-scholarships-20.html#post16451378[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/financial-aid-scholarships/1348012-automatic-full-tuition-full-ride-scholarships-20.html#post16451378&lt;/a&gt; (safeties if you meet the thresholds)
<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/financial-aid-scholarships/1461983-competitive-full-tuition-full-ride-scholarships-4.html#post16224918[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/financial-aid-scholarships/1461983-competitive-full-tuition-full-ride-scholarships-4.html#post16224918&lt;/a&gt; (non-safeties)</p>

<p>Also, look at the Wisconsin and Minnesota public universities – with their relatively low starting price (due to in-state tuition for Wisconsin and reciprocity for Minnesota), you may not need that big a merit scholarship to bring them into the affordable range. Some other states’ public universities (e.g. South Dakota) have low out-of-state list prices as well.</p>

13

<p>Ucbalumnus, thank you very much for your guidance through this. I appreciate the lists if scholarships and such.</p>

<p>I’m really in a bit of a Catch-22, huh?
Do you happen to know much about WUSTL’s Langsdorf Fellowship, and what my chances might be?</p>

14

<p>I’m looking at outside scholarships, but it seems like they are all one or two thousand dollar ones, which doesn’t do much for a $60K annual cost if attending.</p>

<p>Without need, you’re not going to find significant outside scholarships. And the ones you do find will be small and only for FRESHMAN year. They won’t be for all four years. So, those will NOT work for you.</p>

<p>Significant outside scholarships that are for four years usually have a “need” component or some other unusual component. Private entities have no incentive to give money to students from high income families. </p>

<p>I disagree with some of the above…</p>

<p>$12,500 will not even cover room, board, books, fees, etc, at many colleges. That means that you’d need AT LEAST a full tuition scholarship so that your parents’ money, your merit scholarship, and a small student loan can cover the rest.</p>

<p>I don’t blame you for being upset. Your parents have a very high income (or high assets), and yet they’re basically only paying for “commuting to the local public”. </p>

<p>That said, be thankful that you’re finding this out NOW, when there’s still time to identify schools that will work for you. </p>

<p>BTW…ask your parents if they’ll give you that much money …even if your cost is less, so that you can use any extra money towards a study abroad or similar.</p>

<p>Do you happen to know much about WUSTL’s Langsdorf Fellowship, and what my chances might be?</p>

<p>Honesty, if you’re expecting a 33 then you’re not going to get the big merit at top schools. An ACT 33 is average at those schools. They’re going to give the big merit to the ACT 35/36 student with some amazing hook.</p>

<p>Those schools are full of students with ACT 32-36 (or SAT equivalents). They’re going to award big merit to the TOP TOP student that they’re trying to lure away from HYPS.</p>

15

<p>I’ve recently realized that while a 33 on the ACT is good, it’s not good enough for my situation. I will be hitting the books HARD until my test on December 14, shooting for a 35 or 36. I believe I can do it if I up my speed (honestly, math is the biggest problem usually. I can do BC Calculus, but the simple math tends to screw me up because I haven’t done it in so long. easy enough to prepare for and fix though!)</p>

<p>My parents are willing to contribute that half-of-Madison all four years, regardless if I need it or not, since they know I want to to some abroad studies and graduate school. There is a small chance my grandparents will kick in some money, I have no clue how much though. Money from my grandparents, and scholarship money, would all go towards “my half of Madison tuition”. </p>

<p>I think part of the problem is that my Dad is a Badger Alum, so he’s a bit biased with these decisions trying to get me to go there as legacy.</p>

16

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<p>The $12,500 parent contribution will leave you $12,500 short of Wisconsin’s in-state costs (unless you live in commuting range and they let you live at home for free or minimal cost). That will be tough for you to self-fund if you do not get scholarships or grandparent money, or live extremely frugally (with respect to the misc expenses).</p>

<p>In other words, your father is making Wisconsin a financial stretch school for you, giving you a financial incentive to go to one of the full tuition or full ride schools whose net price will be much more comfortably in the affordability range.</p>

<p>Of course, your parents have effectively ruled out Stanford and other schools that give only need-based financial aid.</p>

17

<p>In other words, your father is making Wisconsin a financial stretch school for you, giving you a financial incentive to go to one of the full tuition or full ride schools whose net price will be much more comfortably in the affordability range</p>

<p>Right.</p>

<p>Your dad’s strategy is a failed one. If anything, he should be offering to pay all costs at UW, but only half if you go elsewhere.</p>

18

<p>Your parents are being a bit harsh. You will have to take full loans each year, and then you will still have to come up with $7,000 extra the first year. Where will you get that? Especially if your grandparents help is just still in the uncommitted realm. You can save quite a bit by living off campus in shared housing, and taking care of your own food.</p>

<p>Time to look for colleges that will give you full tuition, so their contribution can cover your room & board and you will hopefully have only small loans. Take civil or chem eng somewhere else. Supplement with enviro electives anything to help with interdisciplinary studies. Wherever you go, look for summer opportunities and REU’s. </p>

<p>I don’t know why Wash U is on your radar, but I’d drop it. To look for full tuition merit, aside from the guaranteed colleges, look for less selective colleges where you will be in the top of the pool and that do have some full merits to give.</p>

<p>One other way to avoid the loans is to start at Madison Area Technical College, number one transfer school to UW-Madison. I know someone who recently did this but he has good enough grades he was able to transfer after 1 year and he didn’t do the articulation agreement. Only $3,800 per year. You can get shared housing for around $450/month if you are not in commute distance. Maybe you can do research or summer with with UW researchers. That’s 2 years of your loans saved. Tell you Dad about that plan.</p>

19

<p>I appreciate the advice, but settling for Madison is bad enough when I wanted to go to Stanford. There’s no way I’d be okay with myself and my decisions if I went to MATC. I’ll make something work with scholarships.</p>

20

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<p>What’s wrong with Wisconsin - Madison (besides being at the edge of being too expensive)?</p>

<p>In any case, Stanford probably wouldn’t admit you anyway, so don’t get so fixated on it. Not to mention the fact that your parents have effectively vetoed it.</p>