We just did this last week. My mother died in Sept, and the title was damaged so we needed to get a new title. If we’d had the title, she could have signed in but left the date blank and then we could have transferred after death.
We thought we were going to have to do a small estate probate but it turns out my sister had a power of attorney which we found in the will envelope. It was about 10 years old and also had things transferring to my father, and if not him to my sister. My father died 4 years ago. But we took the POA to the DMV, got a new title (that was pretty easy with the POA), then they gave my sister another form which she had to get notarized and then we took that back to the DMV and transferred the car to me. The DMV also took copies of her death certificate and my father’s (to show he couldn’t serve as POA). So it was get a new title (with POA), get new form signed and notarized saying sister was POA and personal representative, have them scan the death certificates. She then signed it to me, they needed proof of insurance, and the emission certificate, and that was it.
We’d tried to get the insurance switched to my account but Liberty Mutual wouldn’t do it. However, I think it is fine to have two people on the title but only one on the insurance if you don’t live in the same household. I was on the title to my daughter’s car (cheaper interest rate as she was in college and I had better credit) but I was not on her insurance policy as I didn’t drive the car (it was in another state).
It is state dependent, but I think you can do a few different things:
Get a POA and see if that will work to transfer the title after she dies.
See if it is okay to endorse the title but not complete the sale (and then keep in a very safe place as it will be a ‘live’ transfer).
3 Add your name to the title, although you may still need to do something to get her name off the title after death; a POA may be enough but if it isn’t in #1, it may not be here so then you’d still be in the same spot of having to get her name off the title to make a transfer to a grandchild.
The only thing my mother had that was titled was the car. I am a joint owner of her bank account so I can close that.
We thought we had it all handled and it turns out we did, but that POA was key for the title transfer. The bank has also been a pain and won’t let us deposit checks made out to her or to 'the estate of X". The refund checks we’ve received are so small that it is not worth opening and estate so if the bank requires that we’ll just lose that money (and maybe hope it escheats to the state and we can collect it that way).
Her accounts (and mine) are at a credit union. I don’t know if they’ll make us probate the estate to open an estate account or if the POA will be enough. If it requires probate, we’ll just let it go.
In our state cars are treated differently and don’t require opening up an estate for probate. My sister was able to go DMV and they transferred it for her. Thought it was going to be a hassle but it was straightforward.
Well, it isn’t exactly something to know, but I found the following slightly funny in a better to laugh than cry way.
I made a mistake in sending the tax guy Dad’s summary of income/expense. I did it for the year (2022). I forgot that my brother made estimated payments for Dad in January 2023. So the tax guy finished Dad’s taxes late (we were waiting on some paper or something). And said we would owe and not have refunds. So I closed Dad’s account (trust account so bro and I as trustees were still able to pay bills and cash checks). Two weeks after I closed it, I got a refund check (from Idaho not that it makes a difference). So I sent it back with the 1310 form to reissue refund for deceased person. Simple!! … and two months later I got a check made out to comma . That is there is just a comma on the payee line. Bank wouldn’t touch it. I was tempted to write in my name and put it in the ATM, but she said banking regulators might say it was altering a check and not pay it anyway.
So long story to serve as cautionary tale… double check the taxes/refunds before you close the account. And don’t count on a form to result in your getting the check reissued in a timely fashion.
And just for the cherry on top, he had a twice yearly lease payment come in. I notified them in Sept that he had died, but that they still could send the check to the trust until I got things sorted. (YAY TRUSTS, they make things pretty easy if done correctly) I sent them all the new information INCLUDING an updated lease, the W9, etc etc etc, in January and in May. And guess what? This week I got a check made out to the trust… sort of wish I’d never closed the account, except that trust income tax is lots more than individual (or in this case passed through an LLC).
No I just got it yesterday. I have to send it back, with a letter and copies of all the forms and crap I already sent. I’ll time it starting tomorrow when the letter is in the mail. Nice lady on the phone though (after an hour wait).
OH I have a piece of useful advice for people dealing with Idaho tax office phone calls. Every time I’ve called, there is more than an hour wait on hold. Don’t hang up! after 15 minutes (or so) they will ask if you want a call back and to not hold. If you hang up you lose your place in the queue. Hang on until they ask to call you back, then you can hang up and go do laundry and you are still in the original hour queue, now only 45 minutes left…
In Ohio we absolutely could not transfer or sell a car without probate. The car was the only thing not in trust and POA ended with death. In the courthouse probate section, the clerks kept saying to the people in line, anyone who is not an attorney or not with an attorney may come to the front of the line.
After doing what they needed to do, the clerks ran the paperwork back to a judge who was not in court session for him/her to finish up while I waited a few minutes. Family members from out of town had been using the car.
Still well worth doing and much simpler while you are still POA, if you get a chance, even if you can just get a transfer upon death (TOD) on the title.
Oh, that would have been sad for us as both my sister and I are attorneys, although both have inactive licenses and we weren’t acting as attorneys, just as daughters.
I didn’t read the POA document closely, but I’m pretty sure it only kicked in after death. In the envelope, we found the Will, the medical POA (which they didn’t ask up for at the hospital but just took what my sister and I wanted to do (end invasive measures) ) and this POA we used for the title transfer. The DMV made her fill out a DMV form and have it notarized and I’m not sure what that said but it wasn’t anything fancy. I think it was something like “I swear I’m the person named in the POA and I really am who I say I am.” The DMV lady asked if we all had the same last name (we do/did) and I think they believed we weren’t trying to steal the car or transfer a stolen car. We also had my father’s death certificate so they knew we weren’t trying to steal from his either.
Having the TOD on the title would have been the easiest way for sure, so thanks for that info. I may consider it for my cars for my kids. I’m trying to gift them a carefree probate (non-probate really) and get all the right documents ready. My 401k accounts and bank accounts will pass outside probate, of course, and I think the cars are the only things I have that are titled.
They will still have to deal with my triple lifetime supply of fabric and cross stitch kits. They owe me that but i will leave them a list of friends who want my stash - and then their kids can deal with it. That way I’ll never really die, right?
That would be a good question for your lawyer. Trusts - technically, there should be no issues with portability, but with wills, states can have specific requirements for will validity, plus there can be some other issues such as community property etc. Do check with the attorney who prepared the documents!
My Dad — CA to ID – got away with not changing the will or trust, but he had already gotten down to a checking account (in the trust) and land (in the trust). No need to probate the will due to below the threshold.
We just moved CA to new state and had to completely redo everything. We didn’t have to make changes, but language was different enough. We probably can’t keep below the $25K probate threshold either since we didn’t put the new car into the trust. SO answer to moving is that it is state and value dependent. Ask an attorney in the NEW state (and they will say yes, just because) But for the trust , nothing has to change except an amendment page saying change state and use its laws. We needed an update anyway but we could have gotten away with just the amendment.
Edit to add… although our trust was basically replaced, the name and date of creation stayed the same (so that already transferred property did not need new deeds). And it was handy for new state to get new Certification of Trust paper for new state banks. (sort of like POA, banks in different states have different rules for Trust paperwork and if you do not want to expose the entire trust, you need the certification that they have to accept).
Sometimes it’s worth a thousand bucks or so to save yourself 50K down the road (you don’t know what you don’t know). If there is complexity, or a few heirs who aren’t getting along now, having a local lawyer review the documents could be well worth it- nobody can cry foul, you got expert advice in the right domicile, etc. If there isn’t much money anyway, agree that paying a new lawyer to figure out what needs to change is likely not worth the money and the hassle. But as I’ve posted upthread- sometimes paying an expert is the best possible investment. And a true expert isn’t going to be nickel and diming you, charging for xeroxing and fedexing random documents. They have a hefty hourly fee because you’re paying for expertise- but they aren’t doing the administrative stuff since they know you’ll get a better deal either doing it yourself or with a storefront/shopping mall lawyer…
Before calling an attorney, do some research and educate yourself. Look up transferring car upon death [state] name. Does new state allow ToD for cars/real estate? Search from [state] small probate.
OTOH, definitely contact an in-state attorney when you move from community property to non-community property states, and vice versa. And make sure that you have a ‘pour-over will’.
