Without giving too many details, we find ourselves the sounding board for our DiL, who inherits an estate but is not the executor – who lives on the opposite coast.
It’s been a month and they are still waiting for a death certificate, without which the will cannot be filed. She and S1 did find the will, and registered-mailed it to the (new) probate lawyer (the one who drew up the will has since retired). Condolences to those who have been through this, but we have not and are wondering about the unknown things yet to come. She does understand that everything will take a long time to resolve, and is struggling along as best she can since there’s nothing to do right now.
I’ve only been through this once so I don’t know if our experience is typical. Probate laws vary state to state so it depends on where the person died. For us, for a simple probate with no one contesting anything, it took 3 months. Probate is posted publicly so your DIL should prepare herself for calls from everyone from realtors to investors to money managers. My advice is to not pick up calls from any unknown numbers. It was relentless.
The legal fees felt astronomical. The paperwork never ending. I was on a first name basis with the bank notary after the first week.
Get more copies of the death certificate than you expect to need. Every account needed an official copy.
Order death certificates in bulk. Everyone needs them.
If you are an executor, make sure you have current passwords for everything. And get added to accounts as signatory before death.
Ask that anything that can avoid probate does. Assign beneficiaries on 401k, etc.
Be prepared for a few weird things to surface, even for the very organized and prepared. For example, I was selling a house as an executor and a lien came up in the title search. I knew it wasn’t right. Apparently, when the deceased had applied for some kind other kind of credit a decade before - not in existence at death -, he’d agreed that this would be collateral if necessary. But the bank that had the lien had been acquired (and sued) and the acquiror had no record of this. It was a bear to get released because nobody knew who could do that. And in the meantime, we couldn’t get the house sold!
This can take patience. I have never taken compensation for this role although it is permitted. But it takes a lot of work, so be patient and kind with the person doing it!
Double on both of these. Getting added as signatory sure would have simplified a ton of things and saved a lot of time. And everything needs a password to pay bills or cancel service.
Our funeral home took care of getting the death certificates. Think we got about 10 (there is a long form and a short form). And yes, everyone requires them although a couple just needed a copy rather than an original. And if anything was held jointly (my mom and dad had trusts in both names which had reverted to my dad) then you need both death certificates.
I do know the funeral home costs included 14 death certificates. She has yet to receive them but apparently they are literally in the mail. Again, she is not the executor, but the boots on the ground, so to speak.
What do you mean by this? Banks, investment accounts, life insurance, etc…usually will only deal with the executor of an estate. I had to send copies of the will proving that I was the executor before people would even speak to me.
The will designates an executor who lives almost 1500 miles from the deceased’s home. The lawyer seems to think that for physically doing things (selling a car, a house, finding contractors to clear the house, etc) it will be sufficient to have some sort of Zoom meeting where Executor authorizes DiL to take specific action in the presence of the lawyer. Executor will have to handle closing bank accounts, debts, etc. My husband and I covered the costs of the funeral rather than see a young couple try and come up with that.
I have been both an heir and an executor, and although being an executor is 100 times more work and more stress, being an heir isn’t always a day at the beach so to speak.
But agree… not sure what kind of boots on the ground she can be. She has no legal standing right now so it’s unlikely that any bank, insurance company, etc. will even talk to her.
What will be helpful is for her to get hold of the last five years tax returns if possible- that will yield things like a bond the deceased bought ten years ago and forgot about, help identify other assets that may get lost in the shuffle. She can also run the deceased’s social security number through the state treasurer’s website of anywhere the deceased lived to see what assets may have been turned over. For example- a bank gets acquired. Somewhere there is a Christmas Account from 1962 that had $50 in it, the deceased moved, forgot about it. With interest I have no idea how much that $50 is worth now, but helping the executor identify all assets is a really helpful thing.
If there is real estate-- I have a laundry list of things that can be helpful, but if there’s no house to sell, not worth getting agitated over how much work that is!
Boots on the ground type thing which is also helpful… have your DIL walk through “a day in the life” of the deceased. Is there auto-delivery on drugs? Cable bill to cancel? Newspaper subscriptions? Any recurring charges? The banks are SUPER efficient, and likely put a hold the account immediately, but there is nothing to stop the cable company from hitting the deceased with a late fee because the autopay did not go through. (Yes, the charges get reversed. Yes, it takes forever and multiple phone calls).
Is the Executor a professional or a family member?
Funeral costs- an expense of the estate. You need to keep careful records-- and you will be reimbursed (eventually) so keep a file. Costs of running a death notice, transportation for primary mourners, all of these are legit expenses.
Are there other heirs… and are we talking about an $80K house in disrepair and 35K in a money market, or is it your sense that there is serious money here???
My mom died in November and I am the executor - I’m one of 4 children for her. I have no idea why she made me the executor - my guess is when she last updated her will my one brother nearby (2 sibs are states away) was busy with his own business and she didn’t want to burden him.
She had a very, very simple estate but things are just wrapping up in the next month or so (I think). With the exception of one CD, she had all 4 kids on all her annuities, cd’s, insurance etc. which besides some paperwork made all that a breeze. She lived in Michigan so they still had to do the 4 month wait period for anyone to come forward in terms of being owed $$. One brother and I are on all her bank/checking accounts so no problems with us writing checks (funeral)or depositing $$$.
Selling her house was painless since my brother was on her deed. So easy.
The funeral home ordered the death certificates - took a little time as she actually died in Ohio but within a couple of weeks. I think we got 8 sets and I still have 1 or 2 left. You can get additional ones but it may take a little time. Some places were willing to take a copy or just see an original and then make a copy. I think it also depends how far and wide her assets are. Mom dealt largely with one company for insurance/annuities/stock so that limited how many death certificates we needed.
I was not shy with our lawyer saying “I’m the executor, but I don’t know anything about the process, please guide me” - and they have. The other thing that was used a few times was the “Letters of Authority” naming me as executor. Some places asked for that.
My other tip is to download Adobe Scan and scan any and all documents, forms, identification, so you have them super handy to print, send, show someone.
When I dealt with this as an heir, one thing that helped me was consider the timeframe for things to be settled to be a year.
Both of the estates I was involved with were complex. Some assets didn’t come to light until the following January when tax forms were sent. (Keep forwarding/updating mailing addresses a priority!)
There were even some refunds to the estate more than a year after …
Be patient with yourself and everyone else involved, but stay involved and check everything!
Obtain originals or certified copies of the will, trust, any other relevant documents. (Don’t let anyone tell you you don’t need these - say it’s for sentimental reasons if nothing else.)
Keep at least one copy of the death certificate for your records - it amazed me who needed one and at what point in the process. (Craziest thing I was asked for along the path was an “original copy” of a document.)
Ask what you might do to help - I was able to wade through medical bills/insurance to help one executor.
I was executor of an estate which got a sizeable tax refund from the IRS SIX YEARS after death. I may have used 10 death certificates JUST on that process…
Throw nothing away… and a one year timeframe? WOW.
Great info posted so far. In what state was the deceased a resident, that affects everything.
Bogleheads is a great forum to get state specific info.
As asked about some details might help. For example, it sounds like the deceased parent and your DIL were in the same area, so, with the executor’s permission, DIL could handle the personal effects. Are there specific bequests to be addressed? Cousin Susie gets the prized teapot, etc? Is DIL the only beneficiary? If not, then things need to be handled more carefully. Are there valuables to be sold? Or a house to be cleaned out to be sold?
Thanks for all the suggestions so far. It is a complicated situation that none of us to expect to be easily or quickly resolved.
Yes, there is a large suburban house, that is the primary value of the estate. DiL is aware of many of the things you mention – cable, electricity, etc. but since she has no legal power, what can be done right now is limited. She was still on a joint bank account and was able to let the bank know to freeze the other account, but the joint one appears to be the one used for billing.
Insurance, car payments, a second mortgage, etc are all in the mix but until the will is filed the lawyer said to not enter the home. The home also can’t be entered for some health related reasons that are first on the list of “to be done”. The house will be sold “as is” probably next spring. The first cleanout quote was $3000/day, not including the more specialized work that will be needed. My DiL, btw, is 25. The sole beneficiary.
I am quietly losing my mind over how slowly it all is going, but it won’t help to have me fuss so I am just here instead. The executor is quietly waiting to get the death certificates and be “certified” by the lawyer, but not doing much else. S1 has been researching cleanouts and making a to-do list for the executor.
At least with subscription services like cable, spotify, paypal, e-bay accts can be cancelled if she has the passwords. If she called and says the owner of the account has died then they want a death certificate and it becomes a hassle.
A cousin of mine had a relative in CA die intestate, the deceased turned out to be a hoarder and the utilities were turned off. It took two years, or so, to settle the estate and they let the county person do the work, everyone was grateful to let that person take the expensive probate fees for that service provided.
OP- this sounds complicated (even with only one heir) and you need a reality check on how lengthy this process is. And don’t dismiss the executor not doing much else- there is LITERALLY nothing that can be done to rush the process. I had a real estate lawyer to handle the closing on a piece of estate property (I am not a lawyer) who did not know that in the state where he practices AND resides, the state automatically puts a lien on the property until the state estate taxes have been paid (or the filing has been completed with no tax owed).
I discovered this AFTER we had a signed contract, AFTER the buyer had a mortgage. You’d think the allegedly experienced realtor would have said something? You’d think the allegedly experienced real estate lawyer would have said something? I live out of state, I didn’t know, people sell houses all the time that have been owned by dead people, who knew?
That’s what happens when you rush. If the heirs hadn’t pushed and nagged to “get the house on the market already”, the lawyer who prepared the will would have likely remembered to call me (as executor) with a quick reminder. And this is just one example of what happens when you rush. Every state has its own requirement for satisfying its own tax obligations. Not to mention making sure that last year’s state and federal tax returns were filed on time, and working through the complexity of this current partial year (first the filing for the portion of 2022 that the person was alive. Then the potential tax liability for the portion of the year they are dead).
There is no advantage to moving quickly. Yes, there is likely a piece of cheese in the fridge getting moldy. But everything you think can be done “just to move things along” will probably complicate things down the road!
If someone has the car keys to drive it around the block every few weeks that’s helpful. But batteries die all the time-- it’s not critical.
I was the executor/trustee for my parents, who both passed away in 2019.
Not to discourage you, but I JUST closed out everything a little over a month ago.
The hold-up was waiting for refunds on their personal federal income taxes for 2018 and 2019. You may have read stories about how the IRS is behind in processing returns . . . well, I ended up working with the taxpayer advocate’s office and also got my congressman involved. I received the refunds in May of 2022 and could finally close out the estate!
It was a nightmare, and I sent copies of all the documents multiple times. The IRS wanted my deceased parents to verify their identity online before issuing the refunds, which they obviously could not do, and I could not do it on their behalf, and the phone number listed in the letter was “experiencing high call volume” and suggested you call at a different time.
It was a lot of work, but I was glad I could do it for my parents.
Seems like an odd choice to choose a distant executor when the main estate assets are physical property like a house and there is only one (local) heir. Or was the will made when the executor was local and the heir was not yet an adult?