My MIL is executor of my FIL’s will/trust, and there is a bank trustee in place to be executor of her will/trust. He passed away last year. It should have been pretty simple, based on the way everything was written. My MIL is no longer as mentally sharp as she used to be, and she was confused. She insisted that the bank trustee would take care of everything. FIL had brought me into the loop regarding how things would work, since he knew that I would be able to help. Unfortunately, MIL told me in no uncertain terms to butt out when I tried to help her. She wasted a bunch of money having her lawyer do things that H & I could have done, and she neglected to do something that is biting her in the behind a year & a half later. Her know it all son in law has been advising her … rather poorly, at times. In hindsight, it would have been helpful if they had named H co-executor with his mom. But even though my in laws were in their 90’s when FIL’s health really started to fail, they never thought of themselves as unable to handle their own affairs. H & I learned from that, vowing to revisit our own will/trust as we further age.
Hugs, Kelsmom. I have seen a lot of situations where parents try to “include everyone” by getting kids, in-law children, etc. involved, regardless of their skillset, organizational talents, background, etc. And it absolutely costs time, money and aggravation.
My father died in January, and my grandmother died last May. Here are some things I found out.
Though my father had no will, his estate did not have to go through probate because my mother was either beneficiary or co-owner of everything he had. She was on the deed of the house, so she had to do nothing in that regard. Still a bit of a pain for her to do the paperwork and send in death certificates for pension, social security, etc. The most irritating thing was the people who would only write out checks to my father after he died. We didn’t want to spend the money to open up probate, to cash 3K worth of checks, and the big banks refused to open up an estate account without probate. We found a small local bank that opened up an estate account, my mom deposited checks in there and then moved it into her own account.
My grandmother had about $4200 in a checking account. She had a will, my mother was executor, and the proceeds were left to my mom, me and my sister equally. No probate, nobody left who was beneficiary on that account. I got a small estate affidavit notarized (easy to fill out, just google the paperwork online), presented it to the bank, they wrote the check out to me. I then wrote out checks to the others.
Things that surprised me…nobody wanted to look at the will. The bank didn’t want to interpret it. The will was basically just between my family. My mother read it differently than I did (she was wrong), and there’s really nobody to force the executor to interpret it correctly (unless you’re going to court). My mom thought that it should be split seven ways (including our children) and I told her that I was giving the money to my kids anyways, but if she did it that way, she got one out of seven shares instead of one out of three, and just as a matter of being ethical, a will should be administered correctly. But an executor could interpret a will completely wrong, so I recommend people named in a will to actually take a look at it, if they can. Unless a will is filed with the court, though, I don’t know how you can if the executor disallows it.
Was that an affidavit of heirship? You don’t need a lawyer for that?
I’m working with my folks to update their wills and powers of attorney. Twenty years ago they wanted to have both their lawyer and a family friend (who’s a doctor) sign off first if either of them were incapacitated. Well, at this point their lawyer’s retired, and their family friend lives three states away. This isn’t practical in the slightest - and thankfully they recognize that and are ready to make this change but…actually calling up a new lawyer at the firm is something to do “later.” They want the help, but also don’t want it at the same time!
It was a small estate affidavit, for estates less than 100K. No lawyer required. Different states have different monetary limits, but for Washington it is for estates less than 100K. I filled it out online, printed it, got it notarized and gave it to the bank. When an estate is small, that’s all you need.
In the case of the trust account labeled POD the bank wouldn’t release the money to either the executor or my sister til the bank’s lawyer board made the ruling several weeks later.
Very interesting. I don’t understand the need for this intervention when there are beneficiaries, but sounds like a requirement.
In the POD/ trust situation It seemed the branch manager/regional manager/attorneys were concerned about preventing a lawsuit, and/or making the correct precedent.
When I handled my mother in laws estate, her account were joint with me (as I had handled paying all her bills for several years). When I went to BofA to take care of stuff after her death, they moved all the accounts to be the estate with the new estate SSN (including those joint etc.)
When creating a trust make sure the document is VERY clear as to the identity of the trustee. If it is ambiguous, it can cause a lot of confusion and cost a lot in legal fees. Ask me how I know…
While transparent to you, taht was actually a two-step process. When your mom passed, that account immediately became your personal asset. And when you presented to the bank asking that they move those dollars – really, your personal dollars – to a Trust account, they complied bcos you were the owner of that personal account.
My mom had beneficiaries assigned to most assets (yay - that made my executor role so much easier). But something I had not understood was that she had me as joint owner on an account at our local credit union. (It was not obvious to me since my name was not on the checks, though it turns out I could have written/signed checks). The credit union advised I leave it open for about 6 months, in case bills needed to be paid etc. Then I made a new account, tied to my own SSN (rather than hers).
How do you make it clear? Isn’t it enough to list the name and relationship to you?
In families that “reuse” names, put both first and middle name AND birthday.
Grandad’s estate Mxxxx Gxxxx Dad’s trust Mxxx D. Gxxxx. noooo my Dad did NOT die in 1975… ugh. No one thought of it as a problem because Dad always went by middle name, in fact some of HIS grandkids didn’t even know that was a middle name.
I contacted my local register of will wrt the BOA POD question and he said it does not go through probate and the whole point of POD is to distribute directly to named beneficiaries. He said what BOA told me was incorrect and he had no idea what notorized letter they say they require.
Different question: my competent mom moved from a different state to mine. Same register of Wills contact noted above said they would honor her out of state will. How important is it to redo documents in her new state?
Yes. But that information was not specifically stated.
Also, make sure that any names (beneficiaries,trustee,executors) are correct. Double check spelling. Do not assume a married woman uses her husbands last name. Make sure the name is the persons legal name.
I wish I had known how greedy and materialistic my husband’s family was.
Before my FIL passed away (2017), the vultures circled the prey and took coins, jewelry and cash out of accounts. We asked my FIL if he wanted us to reclaim his items. He looked downcast and said: “Why bother?” But we put the “fear of the dickens” in them because we threatened to take them to court. The items that weren’t returned had been sold.
The executor was supposed to be my DH. He’s even-tempered but, his bossy elder sister took over executor duties. My husband didn’t want the drama and was too busy to deal with the mess, so he agreed. I told him that he wouldn’t be seeing much of the assets and he was okay with that.
Bossy sister was in, way over her head, and eventually came crawling and asked my DH for help.
He was done and just told her to use the team - attorney and real estate attorney. DH knew all of the details, but he figured she wanted to take the task on, so she needed to get the full effect of the work involved. Attorney received a list from FIL/us on what had been taken, so he “deducted” those items from final totals.
Karma can be a great thing.
The final disbursement came in May. Was it equitable? Somewhat, as the attorney made them make amends towards us, but we didn’t care. (We’ve managed our own finances well, and gave our kiddos nice hefty checks (with tax advice) after the disbursement). My FIL was always covering his children’s debts so they are not happy that there was an end to the money.
Was Karma at play?
Well, you tell me.
Eldest: had a stroke and used most of his inheritance on his specialty care. Doesn’t have a dime left to leave to his kids who really could use the help.
Bossy Sister: Marriage is holding on by a thread. They speak to each other in the most cruelest profane language we’ve ever heard. They spent lots of their “executor expenses” on her deadbeat husband’s “toys”. I think they’ve lost a lot of their inheritance on stupid investments. No money for their children.
Brother: Marriage woes from the beginning of his marriage. No kids. They purchased a new home but I don’t think that either of them is home very much. (He tried to take something from my DH from our home closet! It did not belong to FIL and my husband purchased it before our marriage. We’ve given it to our eldest who wanted it. Our other two didn’t want it.)
-
Keep documents labeled in HUGE lettering and notify descendants where these can be found in file cabinet.
-
Now they have books where you can list the passwords for all of your accounts. We have one now! https://www.amazon.com/Password-Book-Seniors-Convenient-Alphabetical/dp/1653053550/ref=asc_df_1653053550/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=475873511279&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=8637443117047337744&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9061207&hvtargid=pla-931477475951&psc=1
List names of banks, credit unions, online accounts (Fidelity, etc.) in Will/Trust books with a paper copy of a statement.
Good luck!
Or that she will continue to do so if she is later widowed or divorced.
Some men may also change their names.
My simplistic understanding is that co-owner setup and designations of beneficiary and TOD (transfer on death) and POD (Payable on death) would supersede anything defined in a Will or a Trust. In other words, if you want an asset covered by the terms of a trust… then you need to name that Trust as TOD/whatever at the asset. (Or on deed, if real estate). True?