I respectfully disagree @yourmomma. If the money isn’t there, the money isn’t there. There is an adult/parental responsibility to explain to the 17/18 year old that finances limit the ability to apply to a school ED. The kid gets to make the ultimate decision based on the financial realities. If that means no ED, it means no ED.
This is a tough issue as ED is rigged from the beginning against the student, so turning the tables on the college may be like sticking it to them. Ethically though, it would not be right to withdraw from ED or ED2 as the college has made it a point to evaluate you earlier for admission and FA since you have indicated they’re the first choice. They really don’t like the ED pipeline being stuffed with apps of kids not wanting to go there. That being said, kids change their mind so you don’t want a student being at a college and wondering what if the entire time. Kids should not be forced to attend a college. I think ED is horrible but once you play that game, you know the rules.
Also this would’t happen in ED as the decision comes first in mid-December along with the EAs. At that point if you’re accepted you should attend as you won’t know any other RD applications. It’s ED2 that introduces this issue as the decision comes early Feb and many colleges start notifying applicants in early January.
@theloniusmonk - why is withdrawing an ethical problem? Withdrawing indicates telling the school BEFORE the decision comes out that you do not wish to be evaluated. Absolutely no problem - ethically or otherwise.
@skieurope and @JHS are right. There’s no problem asking for an ED application to be reclassified to RD before a decision is reached (in fact, that’s the right thing to do in the circumstances as you’ve described them) and it happens often.
Think of it this way: I’m confident you’re allowed to withdraw your app right now - Common App has an option for that, as I recall. You’d just be out the app fee, if you paid one. You also can always ask a school to accept an RD app after the deadline, which is what you’re effectively doing here, and which they of course don’t have to agree to. If they don’t, and you’d be prepared to withdraw the app, you can. If they do, then everyone agreed to the change freely.
What’s not right is waiting to be admitted ED and then playing games. That’s unfair to the school and to some other ED applicant whose place you took. Here, you’re being upfront and giving the school the opportunity to offer your ED spot to someone else and reconsider what they might think of you before they make a decision.
No ethical dilemma at all. I have attended info sessions when this question has come up, and admissions have said that there is no problem in changing an ed application to rd prior to receiving a decision. They know that an ed acceptance is binding, and they know, as @JHS points out, that there are good reasons for a kid to weigh options.
Backing out of a ed decision (insufficient FA aside) is a different matter altogether. This can even disadvantage future applicants from your high school because everyone who is involved in the application supposed to understand what the commitment is should the decision be positive.
@yourmomma “Frankly, imo the whole ED thing a nonsense. Asking a 17-18 year old kid to “commit” prior to having full information is “unethical” as well. Heck, must 17-18 year olds can’t commit to dinner tonight.”
Maybe that is your experience, but my son was 100% sure his ED school was where he wanted to go. We did extensive research and visited schools before making this commitment. He was so sure he wanted to go here, he fought me on putting in a safety application, saying there would be time if he got denied. Some kids just “know” and he’s a very “constant” person. So if your kid is wishy-washy - no ED, but there are many kids who are ready to commit. As far as unethical, there is an out for true financial reasons. Before committing parents should run the NPC and understand whether the college fully meets need, gives merit etc… In exchange for giving up the ability to “shop” and “compare”, the student is receiving an improved chance of admittance (in our case 89% ED1 vs 23% RD). It is 100% unethical to enter into the agreement with the thought that you can still “shop” around.
If the conversation is I am going to let you apply ED to school A, but if school B gives you this merit scholarship, then we are going to take it, then your child should not be applying ED.There is a level of due diligence involved with applying ED; doing your research, running the net price calculators, if possible getting a financial pre-read, discussing the financial feasibility associated with attending the school and having it be a final decision. Whether there is some due diligence going on at your house is another issue.
The premise of ED is in consideration for an early decision, if accepted you will attend.
If the college decision at your house is contingent on what another school gives you or who will pick you up in the EA round, or you are really not certain that you want to commit to the school and take everything else off of the table, then you should not apply ED.
I really dislike ED. I wish more schools would go to EA instead. It is so unfair to all the students who must compare financial offers. If the person changes from ED to RD midcycle (before the decision is out), then I can’t imagine that is unethical. It is NOT changing when you know you may not accept the offer that seems more unethical to me.
That said, because my kids had to compare financial offers, I’ve never really read the deep waters of ED.
This brings up a frustration of mine regarding ED2 vs. EA. Schools that offer ED2 and not EA are really forcing the hand of anyone who does not want to fall into the RD pool. It seems a bit like the school is trying to have its cake and eat it too. No very early notification, reduced likelihood of admission as compared to ED1, but if you apply given these reduced advantages, you are still bound to enroll. That doesn’t sit quite right with me.
It’s a little scary to be disagreeing with a Super Moderator, @sybbie719, but I don’t think that’s quite right, or it’s incomplete. I entirely agree that if you’re accepted ED, you have to attend unless you legitimately can’t afford it. The point is, though, that it’s not unethical to apply ED and withdraw your application before you receive a decision - which means you’ll never be obligated to accept an offer (because you’ll never get one) and the school can pocket your app fee and take you off the list of people being considered for ED admission.
I would rephrase this to: “If you aren’t certain that you’ll either withdraw your ED application prior to receiving a decision or attend the ED school if they accept you (assuming you can afford it), then you should not apply ED.”
It is perfectly ok to disagree with me. We are having a discussion and it is important that every one is free to discuss their views in a civil and respectful way
However, the premise of ED is based on
This is your first choice, if accepted you will attend (If you have doubts, then perhaps you should not apply ED). Getting accepted ED means that you are forsaking all other colleges (there is no more dating and you should no longer have a side boo or a back up).
If you have done your financial due diligence, barring any major life challenges since you applied (your house got destroyed in one of the weather events, fires, mudslides, some one has a job loss, illness/disability or death since you applied, your relationship with your spouse breaking up, your non-custodial parent flipping the script and is now flat out refusing to pay), you know or shroud know before you pull the trigger, if the school is in the realm of affordability.
However, if you aree applying ED and Joe and Willie College knowing that you would be happy to attend Clown College EA with some merit, again, perhaps you need to rethink that ED decision.
But, Clown College EA giving merit is not a sure thing …until the offer comes. It seems perfectly ok for students to play along with the rules that the colleges are giving. If your ED 2 allows applications at EA schools, then go ahead and apply to both. If your EA decision comes and is more attractive than anything you are likely to get from ED 2 - then withdraw your ED application. No harm, no foul.
We have rules we have to operate within. If we operate within those rules then adding addiitonal issues like “you really should close out all other possible options if you submit an ED 2 application” is not necessary.
Again - a contract is not formed until offer and acceptance. No acceptance…no contract.
I think it is fine. You haven’t gotten the ED benefit yet. I will say, it might reduce your RD chances a bit more. I’d certainly tell them that you are making the move because you feel like you really need to be able to compare FA packages.
Ideally you wouldn’t have applied ED to start with. But as long as the change is made before the acceptance decision comes out, that is fine.
“@theloniusmonk - why is withdrawing an ethical problem? Withdrawing indicates telling the school BEFORE the decision comes out that you do not wish to be evaluated. Absolutely no problem - ethically or otherwise.”
I don’t think it’s as cut and dry as that. For ethics it’s always, imo, good to look at the intent and motive behind an action. Applying ED because someone thinks its easier to get in, thinks they have no shot at their reach (which is really their first choice), then gets a likely letter from first choice, is going to switch their ED to RD. Of course I’m ok with this as I think ED is bad, but there are some ethical questions around that. In the case that brought up this thread, the parent seemed to think you could switch out of ED because of a better FA package from another school, again you have to be comfortable ED college is no doubt first choice and affordable.
“as @JHS points out, that there are good reasons for a kid to weigh options.”
I agree with this, but if a kid wants options, they shouldn’t apply ED anywhere. By definition, ED limits options, like to one. So this is a contradictory argument., either that or people just don’t understand ED.
Also the decision may have already been made, and just hasn’t been communicated yet, meaning the college did its due diligence and honored their end of ED.
The contact becomes a contract upon acceptance. If you notify them prior to acceptance you are fine. Look at it from their standpoint. They don’t want an ED student not to come. They would rather know now.
Colleges have kids on the cusp of ED admissions, too. It is really not much work, if any, for them to slot in a different student that would have gotten rejected or deferred. While I think it would be great if every ED application were carefully considered, and that families never had changes in their financial situations (or even wishful thinking on finances), that is not the case. The college is going to do the work to consider the application anyway, I don’t see it as high cost to them in any way as long as the decisions haven’t been released. The colleges are tweaking the decision list right up until the day they release them anyway.
That is not true, at least not in spirit. When you sign an ED agreement, you agree that you will attend unless the finances are unworkable. With the availability of NPCs today, there should be a pretty decent idea of what the cost will be going in. I think students and parents also have a fairly decent idea of what EA schools or rolling admissions schools might cost them So it would be quire disingenuous to consider the “affordability” element of that agreement to be… fluid. Unless the family has had an unexpected downturn in finances since the application was submitted. “Unworkable” does not mean another school made you a better offer. It means “We can’t possibly pay this”, and if you ran the NPC, it means “And the offer deviated significantly from the NPC – we could have afforded that, but we can’t afford this new number.”
Will the school sue you if you back out? No, not at all likely. But they may tell other schools you didn’t sign your ED agreement in good faith, and you may find RD offers drying up. It is possible that an EA admission could be revoked if you blatantly just walked away because you didn’t want to attend after all, not because you couldn’t afford it. And future students applying from your school will be eyed with some suspicion. It reflects badly on your GC, too. So you may not be “fine”, and you may have screwed others in your orbit as well.
Actually, no, you agree that you’ll withdraw all other applications if accepted. I honestly don’t think there’s any ethical issue at all with conduct that’s explicitly contemplated by all colleges that use ED, and by the ED Agreement. It’s undoubtedly true that:
When you apply to a college, you pay a fee for the privilege of the college evaluating the application and rendering a decision.
You can withdraw your application at any time prior to a decision being communicated to you, simply by notifying the college.
If you withdraw your application, you won't receive a decision, but your application fee won't be refunded to you either (even if you withdrew your application the day after you submitted it, before the college spent any time looking at it).
Whether or not you withdraw your application, it's unknowable exactly when a decision would be reached on your candidacy (it might be finalized the day decisions are posted on the admissions portal or mailed), any decision doesn't formally exist until communicated to you and there's no moral or other obligation on the college to honor any decision until then.
In fact, as we saw last year with the Harvard memes controversy, acceptances are conditional and can be withdrawn by the college for any reason the college deems appropriate, with no right of appeal.
As was noted above, withdrawing your application before the decision notification date enables the college, if they were going to accept you, to reallocate your acceptance to another qualified candidate seamlessly and invisibly to the outside world.
As was also noted upthread, the ED Agreement says:
Accordingly, I don’t think it’s unethical to withdraw an ED application before a decision is communicated to you, because it means that you will never be accepted and there will therefore be no requirement to withdraw any EA or RD applications. The college keeps your fee, accepts someone else instead (if they were going to accept you at all, which you’ll never know) and it’s no-harm-no-foul. I think it would be nicer if you didn’t wait until the day before the decision announcement date before withdrawing, but I also think it would be nice if the college would refund your fee if you withdrew your application early enough after submitting it.
We know a family whose student had applied ED to a top 20 university and, perhaps 2 days before the ED decisions were to be announced, called to switch to RD pool.
What had changed since the ED application had been submitted was that the student had been admitted EA (not single choice EA, just regular EA) to another school, and no longer wanted to be bound to attend ED school. By that point in time, the ED admission decision regarding that student had almost certainly been made. We understand the ED school moved the application to RD without any pushback and, admitted that student RD in the spring.
Things change, and up until the ED decision has been released, a student can withdraw that ED app and ask to convert it to RD. It could be a better financial deal from an EA school than the NPC predicted for the ED school, or it could be a change of heart based on a favorable EA decision, or just a change of heart. Up until the ED decision is released, the student is free to change the application, for any reason or no reason.
And, in the thread from which this question spun off, the OP was not suggesting would that they would reject an ED offer, if it was received, because they had gotten a better deal from an EA school. The OP in that thread was continuing to work with EA schools where the student had been admitted to understand the financial aid possibilities and make sure they had solid back ups in place ED school was not affordable and they had to decline the ED offer for financial aid reasons.
In my view, if a family comes to realize that, even though they thought they could swing what the NPC said their aid offer would be, when they sit down with the actual financial aid spelled out in full detail with the ED decision, that they cannot swing it – then that is grounds to decline the ED offer. A family might realize the loan package was not do-able, or the student contribution was not feasible. The family does get to decide what is “affordable,” even if they knew, generally, from the NPC what the likely financial aid package would look like.