<p>Going to college IS credentialing. Ibanks dont hire Princeton lacrosse players en masse because they are finance geniuses. Same for Enterprise Car rental and Eastern Western state grads.Your diploma is your credential and still tells some companies all they need to know…</p>
<p>GMTplus7, I don’t think your examples support your argument. </p>
<p>Have the 3rd party accreditation exams for doctors, lawyers, accountants and engineers rendered bricks and mortar professional schools obsolete? Do you think Sullivan & Cromwell is hiring MOOC graduates instead of Harvard Law grads? As far as I know, it is essential to choose a competitive professional school. Below a certain level, students are better off not enrolling at all. </p>
<p>IF MOOC graduates perform well, over time, the degrees will increase in value. However, if the barriers to entry are kept very low, the standards for performance would need to be drastically raised over time. It’s the same pipe dream that somehow a school will be able to transform low performing students into high-performing students. I don’t think removing human interaction will produce stronger graduates. It will not make them more competitive in the job market. It might be able to prepare them for specific tasks. </p>
<p>An ideal use for MOOC classes would be to provide free remedial courses for students who are not ready for college. Set the bar high enough to allow those who complete the courses a realistic chance of completing a college degree. This would permit students to get ready for college without going into debt. The most heartbreaking stories from the college debt area feature students who will never be able to complete a degree. </p>
<p>I suppose I would agree with such sweeping generalizations, except even the top brick and mortar schools in the country don’t agree with that, and many students, whether they are at a university or not, will be taking some form of online class over the duration of their schooling. Not too long from now, all students will take some of their requirements this way, to get them out of the way.</p>
<p>I think some form of combination is very, very likely.</p>
<p><a href=“The Future of College? - The Atlantic”>The Future of College? - The Atlantic;
<p><a href=“http://www.extension.harvard.edu/hub/spotlight/henry-leitner-future-online-learning-harvard”>http://www.extension.harvard.edu/hub/spotlight/henry-leitner-future-online-learning-harvard</a></p>
<p>
</p>
<p><a href=“http://future.mit.edu/”>http://future.mit.edu/</a></p>
<p>Click on any of the graphic bubbles to get more info. Notice that 70% of MIT students would like their classes to contain some elements of online learning. Very few would like all online, however, and many would like more in-class problem solving time. Nobody wants more lectures.</p>
<p>Finally:</p>
<p><a href=“EdX CEO Anant Agarwal On The Future Of Online Learning”>http://www.forbes.com/sites/rahimkanani/2014/06/21/edx-ceo-anant-agarwal-on-the-future-of-online-learning/</a></p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Clearly I’m not the only one who sees a need for the availability of education outside of the campus lecture hall.</p>
<p>@periwinkle
</p>
<p>I was thinking of 3rd party accreditation of bachelors degrees for people who are impoverishing themselves to attend low-ranked colleges so they can be competitive for a job as an office assistant or lab assistant, not as a brain surgeon or nuclear engineer. Today, bcs of credentials inflation, a college degree is what a HS diploma used to be.</p>
<p>The 3rd party accreditation is already working in brazil-- there was an article in the Economist about it several months ago. I see no reason why it shouldn’t work in the US too. 3rd party accreditation doesn’t have to replace bricks & mortar colleges, but it can provide an affordable pathway for people who don’t have the luxury of attending college as a traditional fulltime student.</p>
<p>Online courses do not have do be a choice between a cheap MOOC or paying a huge tuition (if not eligible for FA. There are many areas in between. For example, I’ve taken classes though University of Wyoming’s online program for under $100 per credit (now it’s $40 per credit in summer and $108 in primary year). Some of the classes I took had a MOOC type model with preloaded lectures that could be done at your own pace. However, most were scheduled with a good amount of interaction from other students. In one class, students were required to post ~20 times per week about lecture discussions in a format similar to this forum. I believe online students receive the same degree as B&M students.</p>
<p>There are also plenty of elite colleges that offer a portion of their classes online. For example, I did half of a MS degree at Stanford as a B&M student, then completed the other half while living in Southern California via their online program. I took the same classes as B&M students including doing group presentations with B&M students, taking the same exams at the same time as B&M students, etc. I was able to watch lectures in real time and ask real time questions during class. I also had the alternative to watch or review lectures later. I even had student benefits, like Stanford’s health insurance, which could be used at medical facilities in Southern CA. The only time I ever went to campus was for my graduation ceremony, which was the same one as the B&M students, with an identical diploma. Stanford online classes are far more expensive than UW, but there is no shortage of employers willing to pay 100% tuition for these classes, so I expect most online students only pay out of pocket for books.</p>
<p>@garland </p>
<br>
<br>
<p>Aaah - not exactly. He is articulating a very clever middle ground - and the work you quoted from (Pope’s Essay on Man) gets very interesting and relevant to some of this discussion and very subtle. More like - know yourself, self-love and social love both motivate your conduct; but virtue is attainable, live in the present and accept your limitations, some of these limitations may have reasons we don’t understand, but help others and be happy in the present (limitations and all). He is affirming that we can be happy despite problems in the world, that it depends on ourselves. It also strongly affirms that we are social beings (something which is interesting to think about in the strange social isolation of our brave new electronic world - with changes coming to our traditional social college model).</p>
<p>An Auburn Prof even wrote a book: the “Rape of the Essay on Man” talking about popular misinterpretations and misunderstandings of the text (presumably including Voltaire’s famous quotations from the poem). You could spend a whole college course on this one poem.</p>
<p>Sure, but the credentialing/signalling function can be separated from the education function. You see that in investment management with the CFA. And for many jobs, your degree <em>doesn’t</em> tell employers <em>all</em> that they need to know.</p>
<p>In any case, I don’t think the future has to be either/or. I think you will see a lot of hybrid models, where much is taught online/remotely, but flying in for a communal, maybe even residential, experience still occurs. Some EMBAs are already moving in that direction.</p>
<p>Ignore post…not finished</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Give them a few years. </p>
<p>The BigLaw model is a dinosaur. As their customers become more concerned with cost and performance and less concerned with prestige, so have they. Right now, the prestige of a T1 Law Degree is more likely to equal competence. It’s doubtful that will always be the case. First of all, lots of T2 schools are giving full scholarships to their top applicants to entice them away from the T1’s. It’s working as a T1 law degree is no longer a guarantee of a good job. And whether SullCrom wants to admit it or not, they’re chasing partner profits just as much as the next firm. Perhaps more, because their overhead is higher. The collegial brotherhood of BigLaw is a thing of the past. It’s only a matter of time before online matriculators make their way into BigLaw.</p>
<p>My sister is getting her Masters online. Every class she’s taken has been interactive. She knows her classmates and they’ve become a semi closeknit group despite living around the country. They’ll interrupt their professors for clarification. They participate in group projects. Her degree is from a school that is regionally well regarded. It will not indicate that it was received online.</p>
<p>The focus on MOOC’s in much of this thread is too bad. As others have said, online classes are part of almost every school’s offerings at this point. The ones I have taken had a class limit, just as an on campus class would. MOOC’s serve thousands and are chaotic and unwieldy, in my experience.</p>
<p>High school students are also taking online classes (Virtual High School and so on) if their school has funds to join a program, and technology has created interactive classrooms where much of the learning occurs online while the teacher helps students absorb and use it.</p>
<p>When students from the more technologically savvy classrooms in secondary schools move up to college, there will be pressure on the sage on stage model. (Harvard has been experimenting with more interactive classes, using smart boards and so on.) </p>
<p>Many young people today see education differently than those of us who are a bit older. Information is everywhere. Think all you can eat buffet versus gourmet meal served in courses. It will be interesting how current high school students adapt to the more old-fashioned model in college, or vice versa.</p>
<p>This is entirely separate from the economic motivations behind online education, or issues of convenience and location. Kids who have grown up with technology will take to online elements within classes, hybrid models, and high quality online classes that are part of the regular curriculum.</p>
<p>Then again, I am in my 60’s and one of my favorite recent classes was a history of American popular culture online. The teacher created a wonderful assortment of readings, media and other resources, and was very present in discussions, asking provocative questions that resulted in great debates.</p>
<p>So the one thing I will say is that the quality of an online class does not depend only on the quality of teaching, or material. The level of other students affects discussion quality. I took another class on contemporary short stories which suffered from a shocking low level of discourse. I read the stories and wrote papers and enjoyed that part of it but the discussions were more than disappointing and the teacher, an adjunct, was not very present.</p>
<p>One other thing about credentialing. Community colleges have many different certificate programs, from Office specialist to x-ray tech to bookkeeping etc. They also have 2 year programs, nursing, PT or OT assistant, many others. This is a great route not only for those who are not going to 4 year college but those who have graduated and need more specific job skills. Some parts of these certificates are indeed online, some aren’t. In our house we are grateful when they are.</p>
<p>@dstark I have written many posts to answer your question about companies using on line capabilities to hire. I keep erasing them because they are too long and I do not want to derail the thread. Right now I am in the food business. I am a consultant.I create new foods for world wide companies that don’t want to fund RD teams. Google: consultant and food and voila…experts at my fingertips. <a href=“http://www.foodconsultants.com/”>http://www.foodconsultants.com/</a></p>
<p>I have never asked anyone what degree they had. No one has ever asked me my degree. Its show me your work. Give me some references. Lets go. </p>
<p>I can create a company and never leave my desk. Lets say I want to sell wine. I call a co packer whom I find on line who is willing to put decent wine in any bottle. I find a web developer to make me a two page website ( I could make my own if I really wanted to) and to run my site. I find artists on line that are wiling to compete to make my logo and labels. I could hire a marketing firm to tell me what is HOT right now. Then I hire a salesman to take it around. Done. Funding: loans, offering % of profits, bartering my own work, kickstarters etc. None of these people ever meet. They can be from all over the world. I don’t care. I need to see their work. I need to see their references. I don’t care where they learned or how they learned their skill. Just that they have it. Or I can take the time and learn it myself.</p>
<p>Barrons used Boeing as an example of the problems associated with gathering parts from all over the world to make a product. Boeing was greedy. Most companies today are greedy and only care about quick money not long term success. Boeing marketing needs to sell aircraft. Countries agreed to buy aircraft as long as Boeing agreed to make a widget in their country for the plane. Well, the sales team said sure you can make a widget. They went back to the company with hundreds of future orders. They get big bonuses, pats on the back, the stock goes up. WoooHooo. Well, guess what. No one bothered to see if those countries could manufacture and deliver the widget on time. When it all falls apart the sales team has already moved on with their millions…who is left to take the blame? . This is basically big business right now. Quick profit. </p>
<p>So back to online education…where I have learned all my marketable skills for the last 15 years.</p>
<p>On line learning.</p>
<p>I can watch over and over again until I master a subject.
I can move at my own pace with some on line courses but not others.
I can be located anywere with a wifi connection and go to class.
I can bring my own study group together through blogs. I can Skype anyone world wide.
I can focus on exactly what I need to learn to any depth I want.
I can watch lectures given by the utmost leaders in their fields.</p>
<p>online dissection anyone? <a href=“Anatomedia website lets you virtually dissect dead bodies | Daily Mail Online”>Anatomedia website lets you virtually dissect dead bodies | Daily Mail Online;
<p>Surgery by remotely controlled robots.is the surgeon in another room or could she be in another country? Why not?
<a href=“Transcontinental Robot-Assisted Remote Telesurgery: Feasibility and Potential Applications - PMC”>http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1422462/</a></p>
<p>Look at this website, collegeconfidential . People have come together to learn about college and other things. They get talking. They begin to network. Never having met. We all do it and we are not even aware of it. </p>
<p>There are sites for people interested in everything and anything. You can go there and find your people. That’s networking. It is around the world networking with hundreds of people doing what you want to do… How awesome is this. Do you ask them what college they went to. No. No you don’t. </p>
<p>There is certainly a list of what you can’t do with on line learning. That is why you will always need some place to go for hands on. But it can be a business and not necessarily a university.</p>
<p>It’s very interesting (sorry Garland) to hear all the ways people are using online education models already.</p>
<p>thanks.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>That’s what “3rd party” means.</p>
<p>Sure, the internet is a great tool. It allows one to anonymously sample and learn many things from a distance.
That doesn’t mean colleges should be run as businesses. Nor will online learning transform people into scholars. </p>
<p><a href=“http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-corinthian-colleges-20140814-story.html[/url]”>http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-corinthian-colleges-20140814-story.html</a>
<a href=“http://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesmarshallcrotty/2014/07/31/california-ag-corinthian-colleges-fraudulently-targeted-jerry-springer-set/[/url]”>http://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesmarshallcrotty/2014/07/31/california-ag-corinthian-colleges-fraudulently-targeted-jerry-springer-set/</a></p>
<p>The business world excells in criticizing higher education as “unsustainable.” The true tragedy of our time has been the gradual withdrawal of support for public colleges and universities. For the average citizen, the cost of education has risen while the offerings have gradually hollowed out. This removes a vital support from middle class families. It’s not the presence of online learning which threatens colleges. The removal of public support from public colleges is threatening.</p>
<p>Encouraging all students to attend college, with non-dischargeable loans, is evil. Again, this is a political decision. For the ill-informed, handing student loan money to Corinthian Colleges might seem like a good deal. After all, online education is the wave of the future…</p>
<p>Check out this website bringing teachers and kids together in worldwide collaboration. </p>
<p><a href=“http://www.21stcenturyschools.com/global_collaborative_projects.htm”>http://www.21stcenturyschools.com/global_collaborative_projects.htm</a></p>
<p>How awesome is this!</p>
<p>and this
<a href=“http://www.monsterexchange.org/”>http://www.monsterexchange.org/</a></p>
<p>just for starters.</p>