<p>After reading numerous "chance me!" topics on CC forums, I wonder: what colleges nowadays are reach, match or safeties for bright and hardworking kids, who go to good, highly competitive high schools in "overrepresented" areas like CA, N/E etc., do their best, get excellent results academically ( 4+ GPA, 700+ - 800 SAT's, taking as much as humanely possible AP classes and test well on AP exams), have some special talents and achievements in arts, sports or academic subjects ... but do not have time (after doing 3-5-7 hours of daily homework) or too much of competitive attitude or ... well, abilities - to achieve something really extraordinary (like win national/international level competitions, get into some extraordinary research/internship, volounteer 100+ hours ... "save the world", "cure cancer"-like activites)? What if, having academic stats within Ivy or Ivy-like range AND some real passions (like music or art or language or science) the kid doesn't have too many prizes or awards for those passions? Or those awards/achievements are on some modest - local or even school-wide level (which, btw, in some geographic areas - like Sillicon Valley, CA or, probably NYC, Boston etc. - are much more of achievements, than in others)?</p>
<p>Having to add to the equation, usually, middle-class family income (therefore, no or little hope for an adequate need-based finaid), it makes me wonder: should such kids even bother to apply to any Ivy's and Ivy-likes? What caliber of colleges would really want them - up to the point of not only acceptance, but offering them something attractive money-wise (full or partial merit scholarship, attractive need-based finaid etc.)?</p>
<p>I have to wonder the same, not because I honestly believe my ECs are mediocre, but because most colleges might.. and the fact that I don't win national competitions. I'm concerned as well.</p>
<p>You don't necessarily have to win national competitions to be considered by the elite colleges. Showing a passion in one or two activities, where it reflects in increased achievement/responsibilities, is just as meritorious.
If you're already a senior, I would guess the national universities outside the usual "top 25" or the LACs outside the usual "top 40" would welcome you with open arms. The top regional colleges would too.</p>
<p>"stats within Ivy or Ivy-like range AND some real passions (like music or art or language or science) the kid doesn't have too many prizes or awards for those passions?"</p>
<p>I was wondering this, too. I'd say language is my passion, but there's nothing in my community to show that -- no awards, no clubs, no nothing. Of course, I've taken Spanish courses and whatnot, but nothing extracurricular is available for that. (Which is why I'm starting clubs, etc., but it's still not nearly as much as others would have to "validate" their passion for language.)</p>
<p>You have to find even the smallest of things that can emphasize your passion...for example...</p>
<p>Let's say language was my strongest passion (it's actualy music, but Spanish is on the list)</p>
<p>I actually wrote one of my college essays about an assignment we had to do in Spanish...</p>
<p>We were studying Reggaeton, and out of nowhere the supervisor walks in...my teacher had to come up with something creative, so she asked us to create and memorize a rhyming spanish rap in 5 minutes. We thought it was crazy, but w/e. lol...so in the end I was crowned the king of rap blah blah...</p>
<p>Of course I didn't put this on the Extracurricular activity sheet or anything...but a short activity in a spanish class was enough to write a huge essay. </p>
<p>Basically, look outside the box...they're just avoiding you for the time being.</p>
<p>My D did some similar thing in French last year - surprizingly, won 2nd place for her French 4 level. I beleive, there were quite a few prize-winners on each level all over the country ;-), so, there is no idea how much of impression would it make on college adcoms. :-) Well, at least she'll have something to list in "awards" section. :-)</p>
<p>I guess it depends on what you are looking for overall. If you are willing to look outside of the northeast, there are many possibilities. If you are willing to consider schools that are not in the ivy league or not one of the top 25, there are lots of possibilities. There are many excellent schools in the midwest that happily accept students like this and offer merit money. The reason it seems impossible, however, is that so many people get fixated on 25-30 schools in the northeast and CA and forget that there are lots of other schools out there to consider.</p>
<p>"I guess it depends on what you are looking for overall. If you are willing to look outside of the northeast, there are many possibilities. If you are willing to consider schools that are not in the ivy league or not one of the top 25, there are lots of possibilities."</p>
<p>Regardless of whether students get fixated on the 25-30 schools in the northeast, some of those schools are genuinely where students want to attend. And if you're saying here that the OP should look beyond the schools in the northeast, there's no reason to sugarcoat it. Just say that the schools in the northeast have high standards in ECs demonstrating passion - it's a lot easier on myself at least, when people just tell me that I have a low chance instead of telling me that I should 'look beyond'. </p>
<p>Murkwater - I don't think that it means you have no chance of attending. If there are schools you want to attend in that area, then should apply and present yourself as best as possible. However, if you or anyone gets it in their head that only one of these schools will be the best one for me, than you are setting yourself up for a lot of needless disappointment. So often on these boards I read that kids figure since they haven't found a cure for cancer then they are stuck going to community college or Podunk U. The fact is, there are LOTS of colleges that are looking for bright, talented kids. The schools in the northeast are hard to get into because they have so many applicants. Other schools out of that area are just as good, but don't get as many applicants. There are a ton of great opportunities out there but you have to look a little harder for them.</p>
<p>People who are on the borderline for Ivy admission don't know what to do with themselves. They're not necessarily "in", so they say, oh well, state uni for me (not that state uni is bad, even for the best of the best, but just that they have such a narrow scope). The truth is, with great stats and an interest in a couple things, there are lots of colleges who would salivate to have you...yes...even ones with some amount of prestige or known for academic rigor.</p>
<p>Good state unis is one option: schools like UVa, UMich, William and Mary etc. or honors programs at other state unis. Another good choice might be smaller liberal arts colleges, especially in the West...Kalamazoo, Kenyon, etc. Also schools that are regarded as "good" but not Ivy, like Rice, Reed, Emory, Wake Forest, Vanderbilt.</p>
<p>There are so many excellent colleges with high standards of admission outside of Williams, Swarthmore, Princeton, Harvard. When people tell you to "look beyond" they are not saying you don't have a chance...they're saying you don't even know what's out there and how many other challenging institutions there are. They attract smart kids but just don't get the sheer numbers and the mind numingly brilliant AND "i already know exactly what I want to do and have passionately pursued medicine since the age of three" applicants that say, Yale does.</p>
<p>Just because you've never heard of it, doesn't mean employers haven't, doesn't mean it's going to be less challenging than the schools every fifth grader in Boston have heard of.</p>
<p>to put numbers on it, there are over 2000 4-year colleges in this country. There are 50-100 that are the super-competitive schools to get into, the rest accept many if not most of their applicants.</p>
<p>Wow, I just read up on some of those Canadian colleges. I thought Tour Guide was being a bit sarcastic when he/she said they didn't care about anything but grades, but according to Princeton Review, the only things looked at are grades, standardized scores, recs, and class rank! nothing else!</p>
<p>If you do a little research about how it came that colleges in the US began to look at things "holistically" (state of origin, ECs, leadership, etc.) you will find the dirty little secret of American higher education. In the early 1900s, the WASPs at Harvard and Yale were disturbed by the fact that so many recently immigarated Jewish students were being admitted to Harvard and Yale because they were quite smart and had good grades. So they came up with all sorts of sly ways to limit their %...suddenly the admissions folks at H and Y saw a need for geographic diversity, so guys from places like Minnesota and Virginia and California were deemed to be valuable even if they weren't as academically qualified as many East Coast Jews. Similarly, leadership and athletics were thought to make a student a better fit even if his grades weren't as good as the East Coast Jews. Harvard and Yale were highly regarded, and soon other colleges were emulating their desire for a "well-rounded" student body. Colleges in few other countries seem to care if you were chairman of the prom committee or captain of the hopscotch team...and Canada is apparently one of those countries.</p>
<p>I know a 2290, 4.0 UW who got 3 "no" and 2 waitlist letters. Ended up at state honors. Moral of the story is to pick some easy-to-get-into schools that you like. That's it.</p>
<p>What I still wonder about is: should the bright hard-working straight "A" student with "usual" ECs even bother to apply to Ivy-level schools? By "usual" I mean s/he may have strong interests and passions in sports, arts or sciences but without national or international level achievement. Do such kids ever get into Ivies or Ivy-likes nowadays? What kind of "normal" (vs. truly outstanding) ECs can be found among the recent admits?</p>
<p>(I try to figure out whether it worth to waste app fee on those places ;-)).</p>